whats differnet to B info tech & B info sys degree (1 Viewer)

[doe]

yep i got 71.2 for my UAI

id rate macuni higher than usyd, but lower than unsw/uts. if you're thinking macuni, look at the entry UAI for a BSc. you can do all the same units as a BCompSci, the maths might be a killer though.

 

[acmilan]

yep i got 71.2 for my UAI

id rate macuni higher than usyd, but lower than unsw/uts. if you're thinking macuni, look at the entry UAI for a BSc. you can do all the same units as a BCompSci, the maths might be a killer though.

what exactly is wrong with usyd?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

i rank usyd as one of the worse unis in sydney to do computing at. you seem like a very intelligent person, so i am interested in your opinion as to why you think its so great.

no offence, but i literally laughed out loud to that.

Thankyou for the compliment. I hope I can address the issue properly.


Preliminary

Having started to study the B.IT at USYD in 2003, before I changed my subjects and eventually transferred to law at UNSW, I do have direct knowledge of the degree. My prior history of computer studies is testament to the concern and considerations of entry to IT at university, as I undertook 6 units of computer studies in the HSC:

• IPT, in which I came first in my school;
• IT, in which I came first in my school; and
• SDD (accelerated) in which I came first in my school; (second overall if you include the year above me).

So I do know what I am talking about and have gone through the process of choosing a relevant computer degree. I also have some years of uni experience (across two universities) under my belt to compare and contrast certain elements.

Ergo, one might think before laughing at what I have to say. I am not God and my opinion is not universally true. However I believe that it is well-grounded and that it should be considered by the original poster, for his or her own benefit, and additionally for other people interested in choosing a degree.


Now, I believe that it is best to study B. Information Technology[1] at the University of Sydney, in comparison to other computer degrees, for a number of reasons. The overarching thread throughout is that the degree should give you the best prospects to be launched into the industry.

1. Most Prestigious Degree

The B.IT has actually been designed to be the best. The degree - it's subjects, goals and structure - was formed through extensive co-operation with the industry. The aim of the degree is to spit out extremely talented and skilled graduates to become pillars and leaders of the industry. The dedication to industry collaboration is expounded in more detail on the university's website:

In November 2003, the School of IT and Compuware Asia-Pacific won the Business Higher Education Round Table (BHERT) national award for industry and higher education collaboration.

We have signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Microsoft Research Asia enabling our postgraduate students to undertake internships at MRA's Beijing headquarters. In addition, the School of IT has signed MoU's with a number of top international universities, for joint student supervision, so that our students receive first hand industrial experience and wider international exposure.

The School of IT is actively engaged in collaborative research with industry, including involvement in National ICT Australia, the Capital Markets and Smart Internet Cooperative Research Centres.

(Of course, if you are determined to write-off the opinion I am expressing throughout this post, you may immediately call it "propaganda". However, the above quote does not include statements of opinion, it contains pure statements of fact.)

The B.IT degree is highly exclusive. They only take 40 people each year. As evidenced by the high cut-off (about 97.5), it is a particularly competitive degree.


2. Diversity

You cover a good range of fields, from software engineering[2] and other highly technical fields that one might encounter in a Comp Sci degree, to a number of other subjects from across the spectrum of the IT industry, such as the field of business information systems.

You also have the flexibility both out of the IT domain and within related fields to choose certain subjects. For example, you can choose basically one subject a semester completely unrelated to IT. Additionally, within the IT-related mandatory choices, you can opt to do a variety of commerce subjects, such as business law.


3. Resources

It has been said by some that USYD computer resources are not up to as high a standard as some other universities. In particular, UTS has a recently furnished IT faculty. However I draw your attention to, as acmilan mentioned above, the new IT building - expected to finish in March 2006. Aside from the massive, magnificent new building structure itself, it will contain brand new computer systems and research labs. Thus, it will be among the most up-to-date, revamped, fresh IT faculty in the country. It will make studying and learning there a sheer pleasure.


4. Excellence: Advancement of Talented Students

The USYD IT faculty specifically makes available advanced courses in a variety of subjects to allow particularly talented students to be pushed to their fullest potential. The Talented Students Program allows the best students to participate in specific research programs.


5. Final Year Opportunities

The B.IT is a more extensive course than a normal computer science degree. It is a 4 year degree. However, instead of having to spend an extra year doing honours, if your grade is of a high standard, you graduate with honours, similar to certain other fields (eg. law).

Moreover, I believe that for your final year you have the opportunity to participate in an industry research project.


6. The University Itself

USYD is the most aesthetically pleasing, the oldest, the richest, the most prestigious, and the most well-known university in the country. The expansive grounds, old architecture, colourful history, established reputation and of course, its constituents, make it a wonderful university. There is nothing quite like the ancient quadrangle, or the vast green lawn that stretches across it's doorstep.

This point is not regarding the degree itself, true. However, when choosing to study at a particular university, there are other important aspects to consider. The grandness of USYD is one of them.

*

In conclusion, it is my recommendation that for the widest career prospects with the most superior educational edge, the B.IT is the way to go.

*

Note 1: I am of the opinion that UNSW is superior when it comes to software programming.

Note 2: B.IT at USYD is different to a normal B.IT degree. The names can be confusing. But basically a B.IT at USYD will not be the same as a B.IT at any other uni.

 

[acmilan]

I can tell you one thing, after one semester in BIT @ usyd, you will definitely be pushed to your limits.

 

[doe]

Thankyou for the compliment. I hope I can address the issue properly.


Preliminary

Having started to study the B.IT at USYD in 2003, before I changed my subjects and eventually transferred to law at UNSW, I do have direct knowledge of the degree. My prior history of computer studies is testament to the concern and considerations of entry to IT at university, as I undertook 6 units of computer studies in the HSC:

• IPT, in which I came first in my school;
• IT, in which I came first in my school; and
• SDD (accelerated) in which I came first in my school; (second overall if you include the year above me).

So I do know what I am talking about and have gone through the process of choosing a relevant computer degree. I also have some years of uni experience (across two universities) under my belt to compare and contrast certain elements.

ok then, i have a degree in computer science, and have worked in IT for nearly 6 years, in both australia and overseas. it is not in my nature to brag but i am one of the best people at what i do in australia, if not the southern hemisphere and/or the world. I have spoken at variety of conferences presenting novel ideas and worked on research projects at universities and organsations such as the CSIRO.

Ergo, one might think before laughing at what I have to say. I am not God and my opinion is not universally true. However I believe that it is well-grounded and that it should be considered by the original poster, for his or her own benefit, and additionally for other people interested in choosing a degree.


Now, I believe that it is best to study B. Information Technology[1] at the University of Sydney, in comparison to other computer degrees, for a number of reasons. The overarching thread throughout is that the degree should give you the best prospects to be launched into the industry.

1. Most Prestigious Degree

The B.IT has actually been designed to be the best. The degree - it's subjects, goals and structure - was formed through extensive co-operation with the industry. The aim of the degree is to spit out extremely talented and skilled graduates to become pillars and leaders of the industry. The dedication to industry collaboration is expounded in more detail on the university's website:

(Of course, if you are determined to write-off the opinion I am expressing throughout this post, you may immediately call it "propaganda". However, the above quote does not include statements of opinion, it contains pure statements of fact.)

The B.IT degree is highly exclusive. They only take 40 people each year. As evidenced by the high cut-off (about 97.5), it is a particularly competitive degree.

being the best of the worst counts for little. see my comments on undergraduate programs below.

2. Diversity

You cover a good range of fields, from software engineering[2] and other highly technical fields that one might encounter in a Comp Sci degree, to a number of other subjects from across the spectrum of the IT industry, such as the field of business information systems.

You also have the flexibility both out of the IT domain and within related fields to choose certain subjects. For example, you can choose basically one subject a semester completely unrelated to IT. Additionally, within the IT-related mandatory choices, you can opt to do a variety of commerce subjects, such as business law.

piecemeal coverage of individual topics that can take decades to master.

3. Resources

It has been said by some that USYD computer resources are not up to as high a standard as some other universities. In particular, UTS has a recently furnished IT faculty. However I draw your attention to, as acmilan mentioned above, the new IT building - expected to finish in March 2006. Aside from the massive, magnificent new building structure itself, it will contain brand new computer systems and research labs. Thus, it will be among the most up-to-date, revamped, fresh IT faculty in the country. It will make studying and learning there a sheer pleasure.

that microsoft money going to good use. the politics behind microsoft on universites nearly lead to staff members resigning due to lack of faith in the adminsitration.

4. Excellence: Advancement of Talented Students

The USYD IT faculty specifically makes available advanced courses in a variety of subjects to allow particularly talented students to be pushed to their fullest potential. The Talented Students Program allows the best students to participate in specific research programs.

though its great there is a project such as this, it is hardly unique to usyd. macuni has a program where good students can participate in (paid) research over the summer break, which usually extends into semester time if they do a good job. im sure the other uni's do too. i dont know its current status but UOW had actual research labs from nortel networks and telstra on campus for a number of years.

5. Final Year Opportunities

The B.IT is a more extensive course than a normal computer science degree. It is a 4 year degree. However, instead of having to spend an extra year doing honours, if your grade is of a high standard, you graduate with honours, similar to certain other fields (eg. law).

Moreover, I believe that for your final year you have the opportunity to participate in an industry research project.

industry research projects are a part of the normal UTS program. there are similar projects available to macuni students.

6. The University Itself

USYD is the most aesthetically pleasing, the oldest, the richest, the most prestigious, and the most well-known university in the country. The expansive grounds, old architecture, colourful history, established reputation and of course, its constituents, make it a wonderful university. There is nothing quite like the ancient quadrangle, or the vast green lawn that stretches across it's doorstep.

This point is not regarding the degree itself, true. However, when choosing to study at a particular university, there are other important aspects to consider. The grandness of USYD is one of them.

though its a nice uni, this statement comes across as quite pompous. "my uni has nice grounds" looks great on a resume.

In conclusion, it is my recommendation that for the widest career prospects with the most superior educational edge, the B.IT is the way to go.

its important to keep in mind that academic computing is probably 10 - 15 years ahead of industry/the real world. university is an academic institution, it is not the real world and it cannot teach the real world.

the reality is good IT people are not forged in 3 or 4 year undergraduate programs. it sounds like a great place, but you are overestimating what the end results will be. typical graduates are paid like shit because they have no understanding of how things work in the real world. your degree is a foot in the door that marks the beginning of a journey, not the endpoint. saying an undergraduate program is going to churn out industry leaders is utter crap. there are things universities just cant teach, they can only be learnt from experience. in the case of computing, it is unfortunately about 90% that must be learnt on the job. this is because of the divide between academic computing and real world computing. the phrase is something like "computers are to computer science what telescopes are to astronomy". undergraduate programs weed out the wheat from the chaff, but they dont make a loaf of bread (so to speak).

think of it like this: you enrol in a degree in wood technology. all day, every day, you study different types of wood. you look at the chemical composition, the cellular structure, the different types of grains and polishes and things like how the environment effects the growing conditions. you finally graduate, and granted, you know a lot about wood. however, if I gave you some wood and some nails and said "build me a bookshelf", chances are you do a fairly poor job.

if you want to do well in IT, here are 2 secrets

1) know your stuff
2) dont be an asshole

they sound simple but a surprising number of people fail to achieve these things.

MoonlightSonata, it sounds like a great place to study, but in the end, its not going to make that much of a difference. if you're shit hot at IT, what uni you went to doesnt matter. if you want to go to a prestigious uni, you best head off to MIT in the US or Oxford/Cambridge in the UK.

go to uni, any uni, get a comp sci degree then get out into the workforce where you can really start learning. i went to macquarie and used to work with a few guys who had been to usyd. we discussed the teaching of IT in universities at length, and there was consensus with the UNSW/UTS vs Macquarie/USYD split. they were highly paid and very skilled, but their university education had little to do with it.

anyway, this is much more than i wanted to type. if it was a postgrad program that required 5 years of industry experience before you could enrol, maybe it would be worthy of such hype, but you're saying things about an undergrad program that no undergrad program can achieve.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

ok then, i have a degree in computer science, and have worked in IT for nearly 6 years, in both australia and overseas. it is not in my nature to brag but i am one of the best people at what i do in australia, if not the southern hemisphere and/or the world. I have spoken at variety of conferences presenting novel ideas and worked on research projects at universities and organsations such as the CSIRO.

Good to know. If you really want I can pull in my father's knowledge to comfort you. He has about 10 times as much experience as that. In fact one of his first jobs way back in the day was at CSIRO

Of course other things are very important - your grades, your ability to work as a team, and your attitude. But all else being equal this degree gives you an edge.

piecemeal coverage of individual topics that can take decades to master.

Your point? It is relative to other universities.

that microsoft money going to good use. the politics behind microsoft on universites nearly lead to staff members resigning due to lack of faith in the adminsitration.

Erm, what? I made a bunch of comments to the fact that USYD will have finished its brand new IT building and replaced all its IT computer systems for the faculty. I don't possibly see how your comments relate.

though its great there is a project such as this, it is hardly unique to usyd. macuni has a program where good students can participate in (paid) research over the summer break, which usually extends into semester time if they do a good job. im sure the other uni's do too. i dont know its current status but UOW had actual research labs from nortel networks and telstra on campus for a number of years. industry research projects are a part of the normal UTS program. there are similar projects available to macuni students.

Fair enough.

though its a nice uni, this statement comes across as quite pompous. "my uni has nice grounds" looks great on a resume.

Grounds was one of the many factors I mentioned. You can nitpick all you like, but the fact remains USYD is a very prestigious university with beautiful atmosphere.

its important to keep in mind that academic computing is probably 10 - 15 years ahead of industry/the real world. university is an academic institution, it is not the real world and it cannot teach the real world.

the reality is good IT people are not forged in 3 or 4 year undergraduate programs. it sounds like a great place, but you are overestimating what the end results will be. typical graduates are paid like shit because they have no understanding of how things work in the real world. your degree is a foot in the door that marks the beginning of a journey, not the endpoint. saying an undergraduate program is going to churn out industry leaders is utter crap. there are things universities just cant teach, they can only be learnt from experience. in the case of computing, it is unfortunately about 90% that must be learnt on the job. this is because of the divide between academic computing and real world computing. the phrase is something like "computers are to computer science what telescopes are to astronomy". undergraduate programs weed out the wheat from the chaff, but they dont make a loaf of bread (so to speak).

Which is why the university is specifically investing in industry collaboration to make the material learnt at university more applicable to real life. Of course it is true that a degree is only a foot in the door, yes. But what I am saying is, relative to other degrees, it gives you a higher footing.

MoonlightSonata, it sounds like a great place to study, but in the end, its not going to make that much of a difference. if you're shit hot at IT, what uni you went to doesnt matter. if you want to go to a prestigious uni, you best head off to MIT in the US or Oxford/Cambridge in the UK.

go to uni, any uni, get a comp sci degree then get out into the workforce where you can really start learning. i went to macquarie and used to work with a few guys who had been to usyd. we discussed the teaching of IT in universities at length, and there was consensus with the UNSW/UTS vs Macquarie/USYD split. they were highly paid and very skilled, but their university education had little to do with it.

Where you go and what you study does matter. Not to an enormous extent, but it does matter all else being equal. Doing well within your degree is of course the most important to begin with. If you're going into a swordfight, obviously much of the contest will relate to who is better skilled. But, having said that, the sword you chose does have some effect.

anyway, this is much more than i wanted to type. if it was a postgrad program that required 5 years of industry experience before you could enrol, maybe it would be worthy of such hype, but you're saying things about an undergrad program that no undergrad program can achieve.

What I am saying is, in comparison to the other degrees, the B.IT at USYD is the most prestigious, the hardest to get into, the most competitive, the most exclusive, and overall the most advantageous. Further, the uni itself is a very nice place to study. We can debate the "to what extent" question about how much it impacts on employment prospects, but the fact remains that there is a difference, no matter how small you make it out to be.

 

[doe]

Good to know. If you really want I can pull in my father's knowledge to comfort you. He has about 10 times as much experience as that. In fact one of his first jobs way back in the day was at CSIRO

well my dad could kick your dad's arse!

What I am saying is, in comparison to the other degrees, the B.IT at USYD is the most prestigious, the hardest to get into, the most competitive, the most exclusive, and overall the most advantageous.

says you.

We can debate the "to what extent" question about how much it impacts on employment prospects, but the fact remains that there is a difference, no matter how small you make it out to be.

you do a lot of hiring of computing graduates?

anyway, you missed my point, you dont know what you're talking about, and i dont have time to argue with you.

i get the feeling you're just being argumentative to practise your lawyering skills anyway

 

[MoonlightSonata]

well my dad could kick your dad's arse!

lol bring it

says you.

I have given you facts which back that up, such as only 40 people admitted and the highest UAI requirement

you do a lot of hiring of computing graduates?

anyway, you missed my point, you dont know what you're talking about, and i dont have time to argue with you.

i get the feeling you're just being argumentative to practise your lawyering skills anyway

Your reply is "you don't know what you're talking about" ? Nice one

Anyway, the bottom line from what I've been saying is that, whatever extent employment prospects are influenced by your academic qualifications, there is some impact. Given that there is some impact, it is best to give yourself the best qualification possible. B.IT is that best qualification.

Mind you, it didn't exist when you were applying for university, so you probably wouldn't know much about it

Speaking of lawyering skills, I should be studying.

 

[pogiangel]

i dont know its current status but UOW had actual research labs from nortel networks and telstra on campus for a number of years.

I think that setup ended this year? Im not too sure... the building is still there. Apparently UOW is going to be working / researching with Motorolla... Anywhooz...

I would like to thankyou doe. I would like to beleive that I will be competitive in the workforce because of my skills, drive and personality... not because of the university I attended or even the title of the degree I did.

I dont want to go into how pretentious and annoying I have found some of the posts in this thread to have been. Although, I would like to mention how I frown upon the elitest attitude being created by some of the larger "prestigious, old and rich" universties.

Cheers, Jerome

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I think that setup ended this year? Im not too sure... the building is still there. Apparently UOW is going to be working / researching with Motorolla... Anywhooz...

I would like to thankyou doe. I would like to beleive that I will be competitive in the workforce because of my skills, drive and personality... not because of the university I attended or even the title of the degree I did.

I dont want to go into how pretentious and annoying I have found some of the posts in this thread to have been. Although, I would like to mention how I frown upon the elitest attitude being created by some of the larger "prestigious, old and rich" universties.

Cheers, Jerome

If you read my posts carefully, you will see I have endeavoured to provide realistic advice; I don't go about flattering people with niceties about their university when it affects real people. People making these decisions need facts, not wishy-washy feel-good statements that don't necessarily reflect the real world.

I do understand the need for tact, and you will constantly see that in my use of language. However if I was in a position of having to chose I would want to get to the truth to help make the most accurate and well-founded choice.

 

[Dt™]

Can I transfer from one BIT degree, say from Macquarie, UTS, UNSW to the BIT degree at Sydney Uni?

 

[LeftrightOut]

Can I transfer from one BIT degree, say from Macquarie, UTS, UNSW to the BIT degree at Sydney Uni?

Of course you can, you can do whatever you like.
Now will you get in? That depends
Will all your current subjects get credited? That depends

 

[noftus]

Forum PM me if you're after actual experiences of the BIT courses at USYD & UNSW, from a student and tutor's perspective.

Also if you're interested in current real-life industry graduate recruitment perspectives of the courses. (This is what concerns you most - not what some random news article says).

There's a lot of people in this thread who don't know what they're talking about, simply because they never studied or had actual experiences at any of the courses they profess to know.


edit: lol damn, the original post was from last year.

 

[tkfkd]

Hi, I don't know if I can post because this thread is extremely old but I'm likely going to do BIT at UWS and transfer after 1 year. I'll work my ass off to transfer but was wondering what Uni is best for game designing/game programming/web designing/flash/photoshop etc...and which course allows you to learn all these.

I heard few years back that UTS is best for computing/technology but I have no idea now, which is the best. Thanks in advance.

 

[blerkles]

Have you thought about Gaming at CSU?

 

[neillybra]

Munyang???? Munyang yang mun I stabbed your mums taco

 

[brack777]

I found this thread hilarious and wanted to put some input from a UNSW BIT student.
I agree with what doe has said, especially since he has the relevant experence under his belt.

saying an undergraduate program is going to churn out industry leaders is utter crap. there are things universities just cant teach, they can only be learnt from experience. in the case of computing, it is unfortunately about 90% that must be learnt on the job. this is because of the divide between academic computing and real world computing. the phrase is something like "computers are to computer science what telescopes are to astronomy". undergraduate programs weed out the wheat from the chaff, but they dont make a loaf of bread (so to speak).

this is why I'm glad I choose the BIT co-op scholarship at UNSW over B. IT at USYD last year. I'm doing 3 industrial placements with a diverse range of sponsor companies and also getting paid for it. I don't know how prestigeous B. IT at USYD is but I'm sure BIT is similar or better.

The degree - it's subjects, goals and structure - was formed through extensive co-operation with the industry. The aim of the degree is to spit out extremely talented and skilled graduates to become pillars and leaders of the industry.

again I can't see how 'co-operation' trumps actually going into the leading industries and learning what the industry is about, what opportunities are available and all the other benefits that make putting work experience on your resume look good. It just seems there is a lot of air here and no real substance.

Some of the comments that made me laugh,

well my dad could kick your dad's arse!

if you want to do well in IT, here are 2 secrets

1) know your stuff
2) dont be an asshole

I think there are many good alternatives to B. IT at USYD, one of them being BIT at UNSW.