Why is going GREEN so expensive? (1 Viewer)

[8===D ~o ~o]

The environmentalists are pushing the whole 'Go green or you'll kill the Earth' message down our throats, but does anyone realise that it is pretty expensive to 'go green'.

For example, buying some toilet rolls which are environmentally friendly (recycled) cost much more than the regular toilet paper.


The government should use the money set aside to raise awareness for the environoment and instead use it to subsidise regular household goods.


Anyone agree? Any input?

I mean, having Al Gore on Oprah talking about the environment isn't going to help anyone!


SUBSIDISING GROCERIES ON THE OTHER HAND: FTW.

 

[boris]

Stop shitting and you won't need toilet paper.

 

[veloc1ty]

My guess is it's a combination of new technology for eco-friendly products (so economies of scale hasn't kicked in) and unfortunately, markup for the sake of it being an eco-friendly product.

 

[live.fast]

If it's expensive, don't do it lol.

And if you do have the money for it, send it to them dying kids in Africa. Might be a tad more useful there atm.

 

[michael1990]

the production process is more expensive and that means the price needs to be higher.

 

[black_kat_meow]

If it's expensive, don't do it lol.

And if you do have the money for it, send it to them dying kids in Africa. Might be a tad more useful there atm.

If we save all the dying kids, our earth is screwed and we all die.

 

[Townhalltool]

Damn, I thought this thread was about Marijuana, you guys are all gay, whats an environment anyway?

 

[Graney]

Most 'green' products are a joke. Recycling is a huge waste of time. It does not work.

Do not pay more for recycled goods.

If you seriously care about the environment, just try to buy as few products as possible. Buy nothing you can't live without. Try to live free of desire. Minimise your impact on the world

 

[Zrap]

I want a prius

 

[mr_brightside]

I want a prius

Fuck that.

The Tesla Roadster is a fully electric sports car, and is the first car produced by electric car firm Tesla Motors. The car can travel 220 mi (350 km)[2] on a single charge of its lithium-ion battery pack and accelerate from 0-60 mph (97 km/h) in 3.9 seconds with the development transmission.

Tesla Roadster FTMFW

 

[Graney]

I want a prius

Hybrid car buyers are unbelievably brainless.

 

[Zrap]

Fuck that.


Tesla Roadster FTMFW

Change-ma-mind, that car now.

 

[Zrap]

Hybrid car buyers are unbelievably brainless.

yeah i like the environment........

 

[Pace_T]

i remember watching a video of that car drag a porsche and the porsche got nailed.
its funny how the porsche guzzles fuel like crazy and is so slow compared to this car heh.
oh and exphate you fuckwit, giving $30 to starving kids in africa will do a lot more than giving $30 to these "environmentalist companies"

 

[Graney]

Except the ones who drive so much that they save the money on petrol.

There are many more efficient cars than the prius. Iirc, it barely breaks the top ten. Especially diesels. Get a VW Lupo. Get a motorcycle. Drive less.

Not to mention these more efficient cars cost a significant amount less to buy, less to service, less to maintain.

No way is a prius the cheapest car in the world to run, over any distance.

 

[Graney]

So if you decided you are going to buy a medium sized car and drive alot, Prius may be the cheapest way to do this.

It costs about $16'000 more than an equivalent corolla. That's a lot of fuel.

Of course, you are assuming you will save a lot on fuel. Toyota has been called out on greatly exaggerating the fuel effeciency of the prius. It's not nearly as good as they claim. Sources: http://dogandlemon.com/media/General%20Comments%20PDF/Hybrids.pdf
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2007/06/30/nosplit/mfprius30.xml

There are several diesel family cars that under testing have rated as significantly better, as outlined in sources above, including Citroën C4 Coupé 1.6 HDi, BMW 118d, Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi.

And of course the electrical motor will require some additional maintenance, expensive batteries etc... which eat into any potential savings.

It makes no economic sense ever. Very expensive technology and a well tuned conventional engine is more efficient.

 

[Graney]

The hybrid technology will continue to get cheaper as petrol gets more expensive.

Apparently toyota make a significant loss on each prius sold, so if hybrids were widespread and they actually had to start charging the real cost the break even point would be even further down the track.

Adding a massive electric motor in addition to your conventional petrol engine will always cost many thousands. It's not a solvable engineering problem. Hybrids really can't come down in cost that much.

Hybrid technology isn't even the most efficient. The more efficient desiels currently available will continue to get cheaper as petrol gets more expensive, and will always be far better than a hybrid.

I assume you didn't factor the extra maintenance costs into your analysis?

In 300'000 km's there will be a lot of extra expenses between the prius over a conventional car. God knows how reliable the electric motor will prove over long term. The specialised batteries alone will cost you a lot.

If you're going on Toyota's quoted fuel consumption, you are way off. The links I gave earlier raise significant doubts about the prius claims. Under testing it's nothing close to what they claim.

I don't believe there is anyone who could benefit from it. It only benefits the ego of stupid yuppies.

 

[Graney]

I dont believe you. Why would they sell them at a loss? That's just crazy.

It's excellent marketing. It's all about toyota's image as an environmentally concious company. They get a priceless amount of press and respect out of it. Lots of products are sold at a loss for various reasons. It's a small volume model in toyota's range, they more than make it back again on the larger cars they sell.

Hahaha what? Petrol and Diesel are both refined from crude oil. Their prices move together.

Exactly. The diesels that are more efficient than the prius now, will still be in the future. Their benefit over the prius will become even more so.

You haven't proven that they are higher. I have read that electric engines require less maintainance the internal combustion because they have less moving parts. Battery prices are also likely to come down greatly by the time they need to be replaced and technology for servicing is also likely to improve.

I don't have to prove the prius will cost more to maintain than a conventional engined car. It is a given the prius costs at least as much as a conventional car to maintain, the petrol engine needs as much work. Electric engines require less maintenance, but they require some maintenance. They do not last forever. Perhaps many electric engines will last 300'000km's without fault. Some definetly won't. The average cost per owner is increased. It's just another thing that can go wrong with your car.

Batteries will be cheaper, but it's still an additional expense over if you'd just bought a conventional car.

It is well known that almost all vehicles do not perform as well in the real world as their stated fuel consumption figures suggest. I see no evidence that the Prius' margin is greatly more inflated than the Corolla's.

Indeed, but there are plenty of vehicles that when tested are far more economical than the prius. So why is a hybrid beneficial?

Remember also my calculations where based on current prices of petrol.

Which means the diesels which are more efficient than the prius will become even more attractive.

I'd like to see you try to justify how and when a Prius would be a better buy than a Ford Focus TDCi, which is $10'000 cheaper and under testing has proven more fuel efficient.

 

[Graney]

Ok, cbf arguing about all that stuff again. However, I can't let this bullshit go. Why the fuck would diesel become relatively more attractive as crude prices rise? Yes petrol gets more expensive, but diesel also becomes more expensive by almost exactly the same proportion.

Whereas when crude prices rise, the impact on the price of electricity is much less than on petrol and diesel, so that advantage of hybrids does increase.

Given the factor of I CBF looking up the exact consumption figures, but the links I provided say the prius uses more fuel, higher consumption per kilometre than diesels in its class.

The diesels use less litres/100kms than the prius. The advantage of hybrids will still be less than the more efficient diesels forevermore. As the price of petrol and diesel rises, assuming diesel as a fuel costs the same or less than petrol, you will be better off owning a modern efficient diesel than a hybrid.

Seems pretty simple. Hybrids burn more fuel than the alternative. Other technologies become more attractive, but not hybrid cars.

Edit: and by the way, Diesel costs more than petrol, so although the Ford TDCi is more efficient than the Prius it costs more to fill.

eft

From a green perspective, cost isn't the issue. Anyhow, on cost, my understanding is diesel is cheaper in other countries, if not ours, has been cheaper in the past and may be cheaper in the future. But I'll stand corrected if this is not true.

 

[Riet]

Prius' do like 11.1 s to 100km/h. Their performance is shit.