Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

No.. you're forgetting something very crucial, while which religion you choose to believe in... is for some reason a choice, which god you choose to believe in is a choice, we do not choose to be agnostics/atheists.

Agnostics see the atheists points that... religions simply just don't make sense, a god doesn't make sense, so i can't believe in religion... while i'm still not willing to dismiss a higher being just yet.
Atheists go the next step and say they're definately all wrong because they can't be right.

 

[Lexicographer]

I pride myself on tolerance of atheism, as I expect (yes EXPECT) atheists to tolerate religion.

What I truly despise, however, is antitheism. One of the most common examples are those people in the US who deliberately start lawsuits in an attempt to obliterate religion from everything, including television. If you demand to be tolerated for being atheist, then don't dare to presume that everyone else has to live in an atheist society.

 

[Sophie777]

I choose not to have a religion? Thats such a horrible argument. As If i choose not to believe! I wish I did believe, in fact I have already outlined the fact that I do believe in something. just because I don't conform to an organised religion devised thousands of years ago.

I don't want to argue with you. The title of this thread is 'Does God exist?' I said No. You are such a loser if you don't realise that all i did was answer the thread titles question. Come on, why come into a thread entitled 'Does God exist?' if you don't want people saying he doesn't. I have a right to oppose your views. You can come on and say he does with no proof, I can oppose this with no proof.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yes you despise them.. but it makes your religion strong.
In england church and state are one.. no one's denying them anything... and religion is on the decline.
In america, church and state are separated...people feel they are under threat...they feel they must take up arms to save their god... so more people are being devout christians,etc.

 

[Lexicographer]

America is the darkest example of "Christianity" in the world today. They have more "churches", "religious leaders" and corrupted officials (that one's not in quote marks) than any other place. What's more, the fundamentalist movement is glaringly, painfully WRONG. Not even in Jesus' day did people take every word literally, only people adamantly blind to anything but the simplest meaning of a given passage could be so misled.

Please don't take offence at this, but it really saddens me when I see Mormons happily walking up to people asking them for a few moments of their time.

I tolerate their faith (though in my perception it is tainted) and I tolerate the atheist lack of faith (though again, tainted) but I am still saddened by it.

 

[Sophie777]

You think it is sad atheists have a lack of faith?

 

[ur_inner_child]

I choose not to have a religion? Thats such a horrible argument. As If i choose not to believe! I wish I did believe, in fact I have already outlined the fact that I do believe in something. just because I don't conform to an organised religion devised thousands of years ago.

I don't want to argue with you. The title of this thread is 'Does God exist?' I said No. You are such a loser if you don't realise that all i did was answer the thread titles question. Come on, why come into a thread entitled 'Does God exist?' if you don't want people saying he doesn't. I have a right to oppose your views. You can come on and say he does with no proof, I can oppose this with no proof.

Hmm, so what you're saying is we were meant to put yes or no answers in reply to the thread.

Oops, sorry. I vote "I don't know."

If we're all going to be immature and both come up with no proof then there is no need for a thread, don't you think? Perhaps some of the proof provided have been stupid/not strong enough, but Sophie, I don't think you should encourage the fact that everyone can answer with no proof while requesting proof.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

ok... what did that have to do with what i said?

We don't have a 'lack of faith (in god)', we simply don't believe there is a God.

 

[Sophie777]

Hmm, so what you're saying is we were meant to put yes or no answers in reply to the thread.

Oops, sorry. I vote "I don't know."

If we're all going to be immature and both come up with no proof then there is no need for a thread, don't you think? Perhaps some of the proof provided have been stupid/not strong enough, but Sophie, I don't think you should encourage the fact that everyone can answer with no proof while requesting proof.

You seemed to have completely missed my point. I got yelled at for saying 'There is no God' with no proof. But, chrisitnas and those of islam come on here and say 'yes there is' with no proof. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy. No, what I was saying was my answer to this thread was 'no' when I said that.

In reality, my answer is I don't know.
You know ur_inner_child, you don't have to argue with me, I am not against you and I haven't said anything in what you just quoted that would have or could have insulted you. I was pointing out the fact that there has been no actual good and stong argument as to God existing yet religious people tore my head off for saying he doesn't with no evidence. I don't see how this is so hard for you to understand.

 

[Lexicographer]

Sophie, I find saddest of all those people who think they "know better" than to believe in religion.

The reason I attacked your lack of doctrinal knowledge (and don't deny it) is because if you knew anything about ANY of the major religions you'd realise that a common, fundamental concept is the "Mystery of Faith" (Mysterio Fidei in the Catholic Church, sometimes known by differing names across the different religions). The whole point of this is that there are some things that simply can not and do not make sense in the limited human perception. How can a man, who is also God, live, die, then live again? We do not (and can not) answer this question with human means alone.

Some people say that religion thrived in a world starved of scientific knowledge. As a scientist I want to make it clear that science is not about knowing "better" than before, it's about knowing more that we previously did. We know no "better" than preveious generations about our world and our selves, simply more things. The world was believed flat because that was the "logical" way for it to be. However, now we know that this is not the case. Our further knowledge (eg circumnavigation of the earth by Magellan et al) allowed us to rethink our logic before we could go into space and see the round Earth for ourselves.

That's enough spiel, having done this here before I can see I'm up for a huge rebuttal.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I think i've given substantial evidence to prove the bible, religion, god has very big holes,
Bigger than the holes it requires for you to immediately dismiss evolution, the big bang, etc.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yes, and didn't i explain this earlier (i dunno how much of it you read),
Faith is seen as a virtue amungst theists, the more evidence you are shown disputing something without accepting that evidence, the stronger your faith is - thus making you a better theist...somehow.

Again, did you see my point about how god used to control earthquakes, when the sun rises, etc? However now since science has disproved this (to anyone who isn't a fundy or a little crazy) God's power seem to be bound to a few small things these days...

 

[ur_inner_child]

You seemed to have completely missed my point. I got yelled at for saying 'There is no God' with no proof. But, chrisitnas and those of islam come on here and say 'yes there is' with no proof. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy. No, what I was saying was my answer to this thread was 'no' when I said that.

In reality, my answer is I don't know.
You know ur_inner_child, you don't have to argue with me, I am not against you and I haven't said anything in what you just quoted that would have or could have insulted you. I was pointing out the fact that there has been no actual good and stong argument as to God existing yet religious people tore my head off for saying he doesn't with no evidence. I don't see how this is so hard for you to understand.

I'm not "arguing" with you, its bizarre of you to say that, I personally don't give a crap about who thinks what about me over the internet. Its a debate. I was insulted, but you can't blame me or others for seeing you as a hypocrite for saying it without proof. You said you were merely proving a point about Christians etc. Maybe you should clarify that more within the same post, contextualise your argument, you know? Make it a bit more sound instead of making some random example without saying why you did it within that post. You knew that a misunderstanding was going to happen.

 

[Generator]

Sophie, I find saddest of all those people who think they "know better" than to believe in religion.

One could read that as/twist that into 'we who believe know better than those who don't' .

 

[Sophie777]

Sophie, I find saddest of all those people who think they "know better" than to believe in religion.

The reason I attacked your lack of doctrinal knowledge (and don't deny it) is because if you knew anything about ANY of the major religions you'd realise that a common, fundamental concept is the "Mystery of Faith" (Mysterio Fidei in the Catholic Church, sometimes known by differing names across the different religions). The whole point of this is that there are some things that simply can not and do not make sense in the limited human perception. How can a man, who is also God, live, die, then live again? We do not (and can not) answer this question with human means alone.

Some people say that religion thrived in a world starved of scientific knowledge. As a scientist I want to make it clear that science is not about knowing "better" than before, it's about knowing more that we previously did. We know no "better" than preveious generations about our world and our selves, simply more things. The world was believed flat because that was the "logical" way for it to be. However, now we know that this is not the case. Our further knowledge (eg circumnavigation of the earth by Magellan et al) allowed us to rethink our logic before we could go into space and see the round Earth for ourselves.

That's enough spiel, having done this here before I can see I'm up for a huge rebuttal.

There is no need to be spiteful. I have a right, just as much as you do, to have an opinion on religion. I also have a right, just as much as you do, to not believe religion. If it was true and did not have gaps and holes in its argument, then why do so many people question it? I don't think i know "better" than religion. I think if anyone thinks they are too smart for this argument then it would be your "I am a scientist, therefore I know" spiel. I don't believe that it is necessary for any of us to put down what eachother believe, after all how could any of us actually know the truth of whether God exists.

"How can a man, who is also God, live, die, then live again? We do not (and can not) answer this question with human means alone." This argument here is useless to a person who doesn't believe this actually happened. I don't debate that Jesus existed, but I don't think he was Gods son. He, like many others (IN MY OPINION) was a travelling loony trying to recruit followers. I also do not dispute that there is a God at all!!!! I never said I didn't think there was!!! I only argued as to christianity not providing the answers to me, or any organised religion for that matter. A lack of knowledge a bout a religion makes no difference, it does not diminish my opinion. Religion is based on faith, something I don't have. Hence, I can't believe and that is that.

 

[Sophie777]

I'm not "arguing" with you, its bizarre of you to say that, I personally don't give a crap about who thinks what about me over the internet. Its a debate. I was insulted, but you can't blame me or others for seeing you as a hypocrite for saying it without proof. You said you were merely proving a point about Christians etc. Maybe you should clarify that more within the same post, contextualise your argument, you know? Make it a bit more sound instead of making some random example without saying why you did it within that post. You knew that a misunderstanding was going to happen.

If you are wanting me to agree with you. It isn't going to happen. I don't understand what the hell you are going on about. This argument can finish, I can't be bothered be attacked by everyone. One at a time please.

I DON'T BELIEVE IN YOUR GOD. i AM SORRY BUT THAT IS THE TRUTH. This opinion doesn't need proof, I can't make myself feel that he is there.

By the way, contextualise my argument? How does that make sense with regard to what we are arguing about.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Sophie has simply looked around the world, listened to you christians tell us why you believe...
and to her it doesn't make sense, it seems wrong,
The world to her seems to only make sense without a god, while to you the world only makes sense with a god...
Just remember tho, you were born with no belief in God, it hasn't come from no where... it's come from christian preachers etc... don't lie to yourself on that matter.

 

[Sophie777]

Lexiographer or sorry.. don't know what it says now that I have started writing. I'm sorry that I don't believe in God but I think the fact you feel I need a justification for that is unfair.

I don't think I am better than to believe. It seems that you somehow think your scientific knowledge allows you to rubbish other people's rejection of religion. This isn't how life works. You can't dismiss my views just because in your opinion, they don't fit. I didn't dimiss your belief in religion, I merely said I didn't believe the bible to be true.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If he had scientific knowledge, i'd suggest he uses the same criteria he uses to dismiss other scientists theories on the theory of gods existance....
You soon realise what a weak theory it is.

 

[Monkey Butler]

The problem with the Bible is that it isn't (or shouldn't be) open to interpretation. The Word of God is the Word of God, and any attempt to twist that is just dangerous. The people that say the contradictory/disproven passages in the Bible are "interpretations" are just kidding themselves, and the people who ignore whole books of the Bible are downright morons - there are people that I know who say that the Old Testament is "about" the prophecy that Jesus will be born, which means that the ridiculous 10 Commandments ("Thou shalt honour thy father and thy mother"... what if they aren't honourable people? What if they want you to murder someone? Either way you have to break a commandment) and the claims that if someone steals from you you can sell them (yep, it actually says that) can be skimmed over. That's crap! If the Bible is the Word of God, it's ALL important, every word. You can't just ignore the thigns that are blatantly wrong.