Israel and Palestine (5 Viewers)

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

But why oh why Palestinian always killed eachother? The death toll in gaza ambush has risen to 8 as of the last news report. quote]

which news report is that??

 

[onebytwo]

Re: Israel & Palestine

you seem to be good with sources, so perhaps you can enlighten us on the number of israeli civilians killed by pali's and the number of pali civilains killed by israeli's in the last five years. there you will find the pali deaths staggeringly larger, and there you will see who is more at fault.

uh, what the heck, i'll do it for you, using an israeli source too.
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp

Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians ​

705

Israeli security force personnel killed by Palestinians​

316

Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces ​

4057

Palestinians killed by Israeli civilians ​

41

oh dear, seems the peaceful israel has killed nearly 6 times more than the savage palestinians since the second intifada

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

uh, what the heck, i'll do it for you, using an israeli source too.
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp
oh dear, seems the peaceful israel has killed nearly 6 times more than the savage palestinians since the second intifada

tell me about it....

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

you seem to be good with sources, so perhaps you can enlighten us on the number of israeli civilians killed by pali's and the number of pali civilains killed by israeli's in the last five years. there you will find the pali deaths staggeringly larger, and there you will see who is more at fault.

So if Israel had lost more people they would be in the right? Nice moral authority you've got there, but you can keep it to yourself.

Of course there will be more deaths on the Palestinian side - that will never be in question. On one hand you have Israel doing everything it can to kill terrorists (many of the 5,000 people killed during the 1st and 2nd Intifada were terrorists) and protecting it citizens at the same time. The IDF were very good at protecting their civilians unlike the PLO and many other terrorist organisations.

 

[onebytwo]

Re: Israel & Palestine

So if Israel had lost more people they would be in the right? Nice moral authority you've got there, but you can keep it to yourself.

its a question of which is better on two bad sides. and looking at those casualty figures it doesnt look too good for the israelis

Of course there will be more deaths on the Palestinian side - that will never be in question. On one hand you have Israel doing everything it can to kill terrorists (many of the 5,000 people killed during the 1st and 2nd Intifada were terrorists) and protecting it citizens at the same time. The IDF were very good at protecting their civilians unlike the PLO and many other terrorist organisations.

did you miss this part?

Palestinian minors killed by Israeli security forces - 826
Israeli minors killed by Palestinians - 119

"many of the 5,000 people killed during the 1st and 2nd Intifada were terrorists" bullshit!
to be a terrorist you have to have killed somebody. so what your saying is that when israel killed 5000 people, most of these people actually killed israelis, wouldnt that mean the fatalities on the israeli side should stand at 4000 (or whatever your definition of "many" is). and seeing that almost all of the actual palestinian terrorists die on committing their heinous acts, i struggle to understand who israel is killing.

 

[S1M0]

Re: Israel & Palestine

I agree and disagree at the same time.

I mean, surely they would be treated as second class citizens in Israel. BUt that said, they would have proper utilities, health services etc etc. Oh well.

Same opinion on this end.

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

“Its a question of which is better on two bad sides. and looking at those casualty figures it doesnt look too good for the Israelis.”
So when Israel kills more terrorists it’s a bad thing? I still don’t get how your logic goes, you seem to claim that because the Palestinians have had more people killed that they’re in the right? WTF? If I apply that logic for WW2 in which the Germans lost more people then America you would claim that because they lost more they are in the right? Am I reading that right?

“Did you miss this part?”

What do you mean?

Quote:
Palestinian minors killed by Israeli security forces - 826
Israeli minors killed by Palestinians - 119

Care to name the source?

"many of the 5,000 people killed during the 1st and 2nd Intifada were terrorists"

“Bullshit! to be a terrorist you have to have killed somebody.”

No, to be a terrorist you have to plan a terrorist act or have taken part in one or have supported one through some means (for example building weapons, joining such an organisation, etc.). That is why David Hicks was tried and convicted as a terrorist even though he didn’t actually kill anyone.

“so what your saying is that when israel killed 5000 people, most of these people actually killed israelis, wouldnt that mean the fatalities on the israeli side should stand at 4000 (or whatever your definition of "many" is).”

No, see the above part of what I have wrote. You don’t have to kill someone to be a terrorist.

“and seeing that almost all of the actual palestinian terrorists die on committing their heinous acts, i struggle to understand who israel is killing.”

No, many of them don’t. Many are intercepted on the way to commit these acts; others are killed a long time before (such as bomb makers). Make sense to you?

 

[BritneySpears]

Re: Israel & Palestine

But why oh why Palestinian always killed eachother? The death toll in gaza ambush has risen to 8 as of the last news report.

which news report is that??

it was headlines on last night SBS news plus front page of bbcnews website. it was also headlines of CNN and BBC news hourly news. I am surprised how ignorant or unconcerned palestinian supporters are regarding what is happening right there. It is basically a civil war at the moment. The casualty from that attack had risen to 14 according to bbc.

Five more people are killed by Hamas today.

Gunmen have killed at least five people in a raid on the Gaza home of a Fatah official, ending a third truce between Palestinian groups in as many days.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6660227.stm

"All Hamas are killers from top to bottom, all are implicated "


Abdel Hakim Awad
Fatah official.

I bet IDF must be grabbing pop corn and watch their enemy fighting themselves from the border.

 

[onebytwo]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Palestinian minors killed by Israeli security forces - 826
Israeli minors killed by Palestinians - 119
Care to name the source?

um...again, an israeli source: http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp
why is it that israel finds itself killing 7 times more minors than palestinians

No, to be a terrorist you have to plan a terrorist act or have taken part in one or have supported one through some means (for example building weapons, joining such an organisation, etc.). That is why David Hicks was tried and convicted as a terrorist even though he didn’t actually kill anyone.

a terrorist is someone who uses violence against civilians to push forward "some political cause". being a terrorist supporter is very much different to being an actual terrorist. we dont know that david hicks didnt kill anyone. hicks fell under the US state departments perverted definition of a terrorist.

 

[banco55]

Re: Israel & Palestine

These savages can't help themselves. Another group of Arabs that can't cope with even a semblance of democracy:

GAZA CITY, May 15 -- Hamas gunmen riddled a Fatah police jeep with gunfire at close range Tuesday, killing eight policemen and pushing the Palestinian government closer to collapse.
Gunmen in black ski masks controlled the streets and terrified residents huddled in their homes. Israel was briefly drawn into the battle.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/15/AR2007051500170.html?hpid=sec-world

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

“um...again, an israeli source: http://www.btselem.org/English/Stati...Casualties.asp
why is it that israel finds itself killing 7 times more minors than Palestinians”
Why is that so many of these youngsters are engaged in terrorism is the question. But I do acknowledge that some of them were hit by accident (don’t worry I don’t support Israel on all their policies). However I do like this statistic:

Israeli Civilians killed by Palestinians: 236 in occupied territories and 469 in Israel proper.

“Being a terrorist supporter is very much different to being an actual terrorist.”

I never said that someone who supports terror is a terrorist (although in my book they should be). I said that people who are involved in group that practices terrorism (e.g. Hamas, Hezbollah) are terrorists. And that includes people who weren’t actively involved in killing someone, that includes bomb makers and obvious David Hicks.

“we dont know that david hicks didnt kill anyone. hicks fell under the US state departments perverted definition of a terrorist.”

We do know because he was tried in a court of law and it was proven that he didn’t actually kill anyone or though supposedly he shot at Indian troops (I say supposedly because the source is wiki). IF he had killed people he wouldn’t be let out of jail at the end of this year.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

LOL........its soo crazy how those israelis kill inncocent palestinians and they claim them to be terrorists. I just find it extremly shallow how you cant see right through thier savage actions.

Dont try to convince me by saying that those hundreds and hundreds of palestininas killed are all terrorists, that just shows how shallow you are.
No matter what you say, the israelis will always be blood thirsty savage killers in my opinion, who just want to get their blood-covered hands on any peice of land they can find, they tried to invade eygypt (sinna desert), syria (joullan). If they had a choice, they'l take over all palestine and the rest of the nieghbouring countries, and they'd kill everyone there.

So please stop saying those thousands of palestinians killed are ALL terrorists for goodness sake.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

“um...again, an israeli source: http://www.btselem.org/English/Stati...Casualties.asp
why is it that israel finds itself killing 7 times more minors than Palestinians”
Why is that so many of these youngsters are engaged in terrorism is the question. But I do acknowledge that some of them were hit by accident (don’t worry I don’t support Israel on all their policies). However I do like this statistic:

Israeli Civilians killed by Palestinians: 236 in occupied territories and 469 in Israel proper.

“Being a terrorist supporter is very much different to being an actual terrorist.”

I never said that someone who supports terror is a terrorist (although in my book they should be). I said that people who are involved in group that practices terrorism (e.g. Hamas, Hezbollah) are terrorists. And that includes people who weren’t actively involved in killing someone, that includes bomb makers and obvious David Hicks.

“we dont know that david hicks didnt kill anyone. hicks fell under the US state departments perverted definition of a terrorist.”

We do know because he was tried in a court of law and it was proven that he didn’t actually kill anyone or though supposedly he shot at Indian troops (I say supposedly because the source is wiki). IF he had killed people he wouldn’t be let out of jail at the end of this year.

for gods sake use quote tags, i dont know why you find it extremely complicated, but it isnt. Heres a simple tutorial.

if you wanna quote onebytwo, you type --> "square braket" quote=onebytwo, close the square bracket
when you end the quote, you go --> "square braket" /quote, then you close the square bracket

There...still too complicated for you?

 

[onebytwo]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Why is that so many of these youngsters are engaged in terrorism is the question. But I do acknowledge that some of them were hit by accident (don’t worry I don’t support Israel on all their policies).

haha, tell that to:

Tahrir Hisham Sha'ban Abu al-Jidyan
17 year-old resident of Jabalya Refugee Camp, North Gaza district, injured on 04.10.2004 in Jabalya Refugee Camp, North Gaza district, by gunfire, and died on 05.04.2007. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Shot in her head during an IDF incursion into the refugee camp.
'Abir Bassam 'Abd Rabo 'Aramin
10 year-old resident of 'Anata, al-Quds district, injured on 16.01.2007 in 'Anata, al-Quds district, by gunfire, and died on 19.01.2007. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed while on his way to buy candy at a store next to his school.

Muhammad Sa'ed 'Abdallah al-'Athamneh
9 year-old resident of Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, killed on 08.11.2006 in Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, by gunfire, from a tank. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed while inside his home when Israeli artillery shells struck a residential neighborhood in Beit Hanun, killing 19 civilians, including 7 minors, and wounding some 40 others.​

Maram Ramez Ma'sud al-'Athamneh
3 year-old resident of Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, killed on 08.11.2006 in Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, by gunfire, from a tank. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed while inside her home when Israeli artillery shells struck a residential neighborhood in Beit Hanun, killing 19 civilians, including 7 minors, and wounding some 40 others.​

Fatma Ma'sud 'Abdallah al-'Athamneh
Mahmoud Amjad Sa'ed al-'Athamneh
10 year-old resident of Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, killed on 08.11.2006 in Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, by gunfire, from a tank. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed while inside his home when Israeli artillery shells struck a residential neighborhood in Beit Hanun, killing 19 civilians, including 7 minors, and wounding some 40 others.​

Mahdi Sa'ed 'Abdallah al-'Athamneh
Maysa' Ramez Ma'sud al-'Athamneh
Under 1 year-old resident of Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, killed on 08.11.2006 in Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, by gunfire, from a tank. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed while inside her home when Israeli artillery shells struck a residential neighborhood in Beit Hanun, killing 19 civilians, including 7 minors, and wounding some 40 others.​

Bara' Riad Muhammad Fiad
3 year-old resident of Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, killed on 02.11.2006 in Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, by gunfire, from a helicopter. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed in his sleep. Seven members of his family were injured.

 

[onebytwo]

Re: Israel & Palestine

So when Israel kills more terrorists it’s a bad thing? I still don’t get how your logic goes, you seem to claim that because the Palestinians have had more people killed that they’re in the right? WTF? If I apply that logic for WW2 in which the Germans lost more people then America you would claim that because they lost more they are in the right? Am I reading that right?

no, i agree, more palestinian deaths does not put the plai's in the right, but it sure as hell puts the israeli's in the wrong

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

“LOL........its soo crazy how those israelis kill inncocent palestinians and they claim them to be terrorists. I just find it extremly shallow how you cant see right through thier savage actions.”

Why do you bother to participate in this debate when you keep sprouting the same boring old rhetoric? Find something you try to address at least some of my points or at least acknowledge when you’re in the wrong.


“Don’t try to convince me by saying that those hundreds and hundreds of palestininas killed are all terrorists, that just shows how shallow you are.”

I show the evidence and you are not convinced, frankly it doesn’t show anything about me being shallow however it speaks volumes about your intelligence.

“No matter what you say, the israelis will always be blood thirsty savage killers in my opinion,”

Then why do you debate if you have such a bias opinion when evidence has shown you the opposite. Once again name me another country which drops pamphlets on the places they are about to bomb warning civilians to get out of the way.

“who just want to get their blood-covered hands on any peice of land they can find,”

Yeah, that’s why they gave back the Sinai desert and the Gaza Strip. Riight…

“they tried to invade eygypt (sinna desert), syria (joullan).”

What do you mean ‘tried’, they succeeded and not only that they did it twice in 56 and 67. Also learn to spell the countries and the places if you are going to make a point on them.

“If they had a choice, they'l take over all palestine and the rest of the nieghbouring countries, and they'd kill everyone there.”

Lol, let me put it this way to you, Israel could take over all of it’s neighboring countries if they wanted to. The fact is why? None of these countries hold any purpose or have any meaning to the Jewish people, that is why Israel is so important.

“So please stop saying those thousands of palestinians killed are ALL terrorists for goodness sake.”

Do you actually read what I write? I said the clear majority of those targeted were terrorists however there are some cases (and Israel apologises for the mistakes) when the wrong people are killed.

“Are you fucking kidding? THE SOURCE IS RIGHT THERE YOU IDIOT.”
Quote:
IT'S RIGHT HERE MORON

Clearly you are the idiot since I acknowledged that source and used it myself. I only asked the question because he had not provided the link before hand. Care to use your eyes?

“haha, tell that to:”

If you actually read what I wrote I said that I am also critical of what the IDF has done. Seriously, if you people are going to debate me you have to read what I write. Anyway as per usual you fail to put in a source so please do that next time you post information.

“no, i agree, more palestinian deaths does not put the plai's in the right, but it sure as hell puts the israeli's in the wrong”

How the hell does that put Israel in the wrong? Israel kills terrorists (don’t worry I know that some like the kids you have listed are not terrorists and I am upset that the IDF did this) and you are upset and view Israel in the wrong? If anything you should view the Palestinian terrorist organisations that sent these terrorists over as in the wrong not Israel. How is that Israel’s fault if these people resort to violence and have to be killed because of that?

 

[BritneySpears]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Tahrir Hisham Sha'ban Abu al-Jidyan
17 year-old resident of Jabalya Refugee Camp, North Gaza district, injured on 04.10.2004 in Jabalya Refugee Camp, North Gaza district, by gunfire, and died on 05.04.2007. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Shot in her head during an IDF incursion into the refugee camp.
'Abir Bassam 'Abd Rabo 'Aramin
10 year-old resident of 'Anata, al-Quds district, injured on 16.01.2007 in 'Anata, al-Quds district, by gunfire, and died on 19.01.2007. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed while on his way to buy candy at a store next to his school.

Muhammad Sa'ed 'Abdallah al-'Athamneh
9 year-old resident of Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, killed on 08.11.2006 in Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, by gunfire, from a tank. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed while inside his home when Israeli artillery shells struck a residential neighborhood in Beit Hanun, killing 19 civilians, including 7 minors, and wounding some 40 others.​

Maram Ramez Ma'sud al-'Athamneh
3 year-old resident of Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, killed on 08.11.2006 in Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, by gunfire, from a tank. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed while inside her home when Israeli artillery shells struck a residential neighborhood in Beit Hanun, killing 19 civilians, including 7 minors, and wounding some 40 others.​

Fatma Ma'sud 'Abdallah al-'Athamneh
Mahmoud Amjad Sa'ed al-'Athamneh
10 year-old resident of Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, killed on 08.11.2006 in Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, by gunfire, from a tank. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed while inside his home when Israeli artillery shells struck a residential neighborhood in Beit Hanun, killing 19 civilians, including 7 minors, and wounding some 40 others.​

Mahdi Sa'ed 'Abdallah al-'Athamneh
Maysa' Ramez Ma'sud al-'Athamneh
Under 1 year-old resident of Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, killed on 08.11.2006 in Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, by gunfire, from a tank. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed while inside her home when Israeli artillery shells struck a residential neighborhood in Beit Hanun, killing 19 civilians, including 7 minors, and wounding some 40 others.​

Bara' Riad Muhammad Fiad
3 year-old resident of Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, killed on 02.11.2006 in Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, by gunfire, from a helicopter. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed in his sleep. Seven members of his family were injured.haha, tell that to:

That clearly proves that Israeli soldiers never killed civlians on purpose. According to your article I quoted above, all of them victim of artilery fire or helicopter fire which means that Israelis do not know whether that particular child was in that house from 3000 metres above from the helicopter or 3 or 10 km away from the border with artilerry range. While Palestinian knowingly blew up school busses knowing children are inside, attacking schools including palestinian schools last week on purpose to harm innocent children.

 

[onebytwo]

Re: Israel & Palestine

That clearly proves that Israeli soldiers never killed civlians on purpose. According to your article I quoted above, all of them victim of artilery fire or helicopter fire which means that Israelis do not know whether that particular child was in that house from 3000 metres above from the helicopter or 3 or 10 km away from the border with artilerry range. While Palestinian knowingly blew up school busses knowing children are inside, attacking schools including palestinian schools last week on purpose to harm innocent children.

oh, so they can shoot at any house, and maintain they knew nothing of its residence and remain innocent. funny.

 

[onebytwo]

Re: Israel & Palestine

How the hell does that put Israel in the wrong? Israel kills terrorists (don’t worry I know that some like the kids you have listed are not terrorists and I am upset that the IDF did this) and you are upset and view Israel in the wrong? If anything you should view the Palestinian terrorist organisations that sent these terrorists over as in the wrong not Israel. How is that Israel’s fault if these people resort to violence and have to be killed because of that?

if you bothered to have a look at the source ive provided some three times, you would realise that the vast majority of palestinians killed were inside the occupied territories at the time.

Once again name me another country which drops pamphlets on the places they are about to bomb warning civilians to get out of the way.

"dropping bombs over civilian populations is ok if you drop pamphlets first"

 

[HotShot]

Re: Israel & Palestine

if you bothered to have a look at the source ive provided some three times, you would realise that the vast majority of palestinians killed were inside the occupied territories at the time.


"dropping bombs over civilian populations is ok if you drop pamphlets first"

Dropping cluster bombs is illegal by the geneva convention - it is considered inhumane to use it against civilain or in place occupied by civilians.