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Israel and Palestine (2 Viewers)

Atilla89

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Re: Israel & Palestine

onebytwo said:
if you bothered to have a look at the source ive provided some three times, you would realise that the vast majority of palestinians killed were inside the occupied territories at the time.
Of coarse most are killed in the West Bank or the Gaza Strip, this is because Israel tries to stop these bastereds from coming into Israel because of their murderous nature. Make sense?


onebytwo said:
"dropping bombs over civilian populations is ok if you drop pamphlets first"
Well if these people listened to these pamphlets then they would'nt be there in the first place when the bombs fall, hence why the use of pamphlets. Also as usual it is these same civilians who act as human shields for Hamas. What do you expect Israel to do, stand by while they watch their civilians die? As to the cluster bombs, Israel minisers their use in urban areas and tries to use them in areas away from those places as much as possible. However it is these bombs that are the most effective in taking out terrorists such as Hezbollah.
 

HotShot

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Re: Israel & Palestine

Well if these people listened to these pamphlets then they would'nt be there in the first place when the bombs fall, hence why the use of pamphlets. Also as usual it is these same civilians who act as human shields for Hamas. What do you expect Israel to do, stand by while they watch their civilians die? As to the cluster bombs, Israel minisers their use in urban areas and tries to use them in areas away from those places as much as possible. However it is these bombs that are the most effective in taking out terrorists such as Hezbollah.
Who is Israel to tell them what to do? Why would they trust the enemy? ..Where could they go?

Didnt you hear that all of them tried to leave the country or move up north and still Israel attacked them while they were moving bombing up ambulances... UN HQs.. wtf.
 

MaNiElla

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Re: Israel & Palestine

Awwwww israel is just so sweet to hand out pamphlets just a few hours before bombing.....THANKS FOR NOTHING!!!

Giving out pamphlets isnt realy such a humane action, i mean do you think that people would actually have time to collect all their possessions and belongings and just flee??....i dont think so.

Secondly if they're soo nice and all, and if they're really fighting and aiming at the terrorists, they wouldnt be bombing a whole village or area. those villages they bomb, have many innocent civillians, babies, kids, old people, etc.
 

BritneySpears

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onebytwo said:
oh, so they can shoot at any house, and maintain they knew nothing of its residence and remain innocent. funny.
One thing they knew is rockets were launched from those house and terrorists are hiding behind those babies and children.

It is well known that hamas and islamic jihad always launched rockets from densely populated areas knowing that Israeli retaliation will cause civilian casualty so they can continue with their propaganda that Israel killed children.

"dropping bombs over civilian populations is ok if you drop pamphlets first"
And those civilians are terrorists and when killed suddenly became innocent civilians. Typical terrorist styles.

maniella said:
Secondly if they're soo nice and all, and if they're really fighting and aiming at the terrorists, they wouldnt be bombing a whole village or area. those villages they bomb, have many innocent civillians, babies, kids, old people, etc.
Villages names please?



Israel celebrates the anniversary of 40 years of Israeli rule in Jerusalem. East Jerusalem 9the old city) was captured by Israeli Force from Jordan. Palestinians have nothing to do with jerusalem, if it was not in the hands of Israel it'll be just another Jordanian city. Here is a video of the capture of Jerusalem in 1967 war. http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news/world/video/94000/nb/94923_16x9_nb.asx
 
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Atilla89

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Re: Israel & Palestine

To HotShot:

“Who is Israel to tell them what to do?”

Um, if someone came at you with a 2,000 pound bomb and said get away from here because we are going to bomb it, wouldn’t you run away? I sure as hell would The only people that would remain as those that are loyal to the terrorist organisations such as Hezbollah and Hamas.

“Why would they trust the enemy?”

Israel was never at war with Lebanon, so following that logic the Lebanese civilians were not at war with Israel. BTW let’s put this from an Australian perspective. During 1942, the Japanese bombed Darwin. If they had told the residents of Darwin to leave because they are about to bomb it in less then an hour what do you think the residents of Darwin would do? The only logical thing, run! You would have to be stupid to stay. The only people who would stay would be military personnel committed to defending the city, make sense?

“..Where could they go?”

Israel left open a number of safe roads out of the country. Anything going along those roads would not be targeted, however vehicles traveling on any other road would be targeted regardless. Tell me another army that would do that, it’s astonishing the amount of precautions that Israel took to ensure a minimization of civilian casualties. Look at Hezbollah, they didn’t even care what they hit! The same goes for Hamas. Just yesterday they hit an Israeli school and I see none of you are going off at Hamas at that!

“Didnt you hear that all of them tried to leave the country or move up north and still Israel attacked them while they were moving bombing up ambulances... UN HQs.. wtf.”

I explained this earlier before. BTW the UN outpost that was hit (if you care to read up about it) was part of the earlier UNIFIL force designed to stop Hezbollah from rearming. Guess what, Hezbollah was launching rockets a few metres away from this outpost. Don’t you just love the moral authority of the UN? At this point in time Hezbollah is rearming and what is UNIFIL doing? Staying indoors and watching them do this when the purpose of UNIFIL was to assist the Lebanese take control of the southern part of Lebanon and take away the weapons of these terrorist groups.

To Maniella

“Awwwww israel is just so sweet to hand out pamphlets just a few hours before bombing.....THANKS FOR NOTHING!!!”

As always Maniella, you present you fair and balanced view on the subject and I thank you for that, not. Compare this action to other armies who just bomb the crap out of cities killing everyone. Compare this to the allied bombing of Dresden, the Nazi Bombing of London and Liverpool and many other cities in England. No warning and maximum civilians casualties. You still have not named another country that warns civilians of where it is going to bomb!

“Giving out pamphlets isnt realy such a humane action, i mean do you think that people would actually have time to collect all their possessions and belongings and just flee??....i dont think so.”

Of coarse not, this is war. These people should have been happy to escape with their lives, I would. What do you view this as, a police raid or something? War is war and property gets damaged or haven’t you ever learnt about what war is? That would explain your lack of intelligence.

“Secondly if they're soo nice and all, and if they're really fighting and aiming at the terrorists, they wouldnt be bombing a whole village or area. those villages they bomb, have many innocent civillians, babies, kids, old people, etc.”

Hence why they were told to leave! Or do you not get that? If these villages allow a terrorist organisation to flourish around them then they must except the consequences of what is going to happen. Now I am not saying that destroying whole villages is a good thing but if terrorists are using them to send rockets to Israel then appropriate action must take place, namely denying a launch pad for these terrorists to kill Israeli civilians.
 

HotShot

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Re: Israel & Palestine

Atilla89 said:
Um, if someone came at you with a 2,000 pound bomb and said get away from here because we are going to bomb it, wouldn’t you run away? I sure as hell would The only people that would remain as those that are loyal to the terrorist organisations such as Hezbollah and Hamas.
But who is Israel to have the right to bomb Lebanese land or on lebanese people?

Israel was never at war with Lebanon, so following that logic the Lebanese civilians were not at war with Israel. BTW let’s put this from an Australian perspective. During 1942, the Japanese bombed Darwin. If they had told the residents of Darwin to leave because they are about to bomb it in less then an hour what do you think the residents of Darwin would do? The only logical thing, run! You would have to be stupid to stay. The only people who would stay would be military personnel committed to defending the city, make sense?
Israel bombed southern lebanon claiming to attack Hezbollah yet they killed more civilians than Hezbollah militia. Darwin was a hole in 1942 there was none there anyway.LOL.

The lebanese people did leave - but remember the Israelis only gave the phamplets to certain areas and bombed other areas.


Israel left open a number of safe roads out of the country. Anything going along those roads would not be targeted, however vehicles traveling on any other road would be targeted regardless. Tell me another army that would do that, it’s astonishing the amount of precautions that Israel took to ensure a minimization of civilian casualties. Look at Hezbollah, they didn’t even care what they hit! The same goes for Hamas. Just yesterday they hit an Israeli school and I see none of you are going off at Hamas at that!
Surprisingly a lot of these 'safe' road were bombed to bits including a UN HQ. Just cause Hezbollah was supposedly firing from there doesnt mean you have to blow it up. You could wait till they move.

I explained this earlier before. BTW the UN outpost that was hit (if you care to read up about it) was part of the earlier UNIFIL force designed to stop Hezbollah from rearming. Guess what, Hezbollah was launching rockets a few metres away from this outpost. Don’t you just love the moral authority of the UN? At this point in time Hezbollah is rearming and what is UNIFIL doing? Staying indoors and watching them do this when the purpose of UNIFIL was to assist the Lebanese take control of the southern part of Lebanon and take away the weapons of these terrorist groups.
Thats all bullshit, did the Israelis give any warning to UN HQ? NO. Why did Israel use cluster bombs?
 

BritneySpears

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Re: Israel & Palestine

HotShot said:
But who is Israel to have the right to bomb Lebanese land or on lebanese people?


Israel bombed southern lebanon claiming to attack Hezbollah yet they killed more civilians than Hezbollah militia. Darwin was a hole in 1942 there was none there anyway.LOL.
Hezbollah are made up of civilian volunteers anyways, big deal even if they got killed. Just like palestinians, they became innocent civilians when killed, vicious terrorists when alive.





Surprisingly a lot of these 'safe' road were bombed to bits including a UN HQ. Just cause Hezbollah was supposedly firing from there doesnt mean you have to blow it up. You could wait till they move.


Thats all bullshit, did the Israelis give any warning to UN HQ? NO. Why did Israel use cluster bombs?
You mentioned twice that israel bombed UN HQ. Where is your source? The only incident which involves UN casualty was bombing of UN Observer post at the border which was NOT UN HQ. There was no UN HQ at the border.
On 26 July 2006 Israeli forces attacked and destroyed an UN observer post.[91] Described as a nondeliberate attack by Israel, the post was shelled for hours before being bombed. UN forces made repeated calls[92] to alert Israeli forces of the danger to the UN observers, all four of whom were killed. Rescuers were shelled as they attempted to reach the post. According to an e-mail sent earlier by one of the UN observers killed in the attack, there had been numerous occasions on a daily basis where the post had come under fire from both Israeli artillery and bombing. The UN observer reportedly wrote that previous Israeli bombing near the post had not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to "tactical necessity," military jargon which retired Canadian Major General Lewis MacKenzie later interpreted as indicating that Israeli strikes were aimed at Hezbollah targets extremely close to the post http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_war#Timeline_2
Even a UN observer said the bombing was a tactical necessity. To weed out hezbollah hiding behind UN posts and Civilian areas.

Personally I think the war was a blessing for Israel and Lebanon. At least they have peace now and some lebanese girls seems to enjoy voyeuring the bombed out suburb of Beirut. Pics here. http://imagery.gettyimages.com/YIF2006/source/gallery.aspx?section=nws&gallery=1
 

blowin39

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Re: Israel & Palestine

One question i wanna ask is that why does israel kill all these palestinians and do all these bad stuff like sending in dogs to attack them and kicking the men for just standing up to theirselves and in the end the israelies and americans say all that democratic and peace crap.

It's obvious to the world what america and israel are doing to them.
 

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Atilla89

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Re: Israel & Palestine

“But who is Israel to have the right to bomb Lebanese land or on lebanese people?”

Ever heard of self defense. The same argument can be applied to Hezbollah. Their use rockets being shot into Israel gives Israel the right to defend themselves. Or are you suggesting that Israel just turn the other cheek? Give me a break!

“Israel bombed southern lebanon claiming to attack Hezbollah yet they killed more civilians than Hezbollah militia. Darwin was a hole in 1942 there was none there anyway.LOL.”

More civilians were killed because Hezbollah repeatedly used them as human shields with their knowledge or without their knowledge. I can’t believe you blame Israel for that! Actually if you bothered to research or look things up you will realise that Darwin was first bombed in FEBRUARY 1942, so before then in 1942 Darwin was indeed a city and not a hole as you have claimed. How do you expect people to take your arguments seriously when you don’t even know Australian history, let alone another country’s?

“The lebanese people did leave - but remember the Israelis only gave the phamplets to certain areas and bombed other areas.”

No, that is completely wrong, they gave pamphlets to all areas that they bombed, something that neither Hezbollah nor Hamas do.

“Surprisingly a lot of these 'safe' road were bombed to bits including a UN HQ. Just cause Hezbollah was supposedly firing from there doesnt mean you have to blow it up. You could wait till they move.”

Actually non of these safe roads were bombed, the only roads which were bombed were those that were not deemed safe, which the Lebanese population were told through the pamphlets. As for the UN outpost, wait till they move? It’s a friggen building. If they had been doing their job and stopping Hezbollah from arming themselves then this war would not have happened. Seriously, the UN sucks at peace keeping, their track record is horrible and when they fail, they fail bad as evidenced in this recent war.

“Thats all bullshit, did the Israelis give any warning to UN HQ? NO. Why did Israel use cluster bombs?”

Lol, I love how you reject fact with the line ‘that’s all bullshit’. Read up for yourself you dumbass. If you had bothered to read up on the incident Israel was targeting Hezbollah in the area (which were a few metres away) when they hit the UN outpost. Israel apologised for this attack directly to the UN. But once again, if these people had been doing their jobs this wouldn’t have happened, and that is fact. As to the use of cluster bombs, I have repeatedly explained this to the present forum, what is the matter, do you just skim my posts? Cluster bombs were mainly confined to open areas away from cities and towns to minimize their damage to civilians. Cluster bombs were the most effective weapon against these terrorists and that is why they were used. However some were used in urban areas because the were best to neutralize the threat of Hezbollah. Before those bombings, pamphlets were used to warn Lebanese civilians using the designated safe routes. Those that stayed can only be terrorist supporters or the terrorists themselves.
 
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Atilla89

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Re: Israel & Palestine

I agree those children were disgusting. Thankfully they are not a representation of the population though.
 

tempco

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I was more worried by the IDF's inaction - and that's when they were on film.
 

BritneySpears

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Re: Israel & Palestine

Those children were provoked by that cameraman , it is obvious from the video. And those stone throwing or woman's ranting means nothing compared to palestinian cvilians' crimes towards innocent israeli civilians.
 

Atilla89

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Just to irritate you and your analnus about using quote tags I don't think I will.

"Have you surveyed a large enough proportion of the Israeli population to make that statistical assumption? No? Well stick to the facts, and keep assumptions for other threads."

No I havn't but it is quite clear that if that was the case there would be no need of an army. The Palestinians and Israelis can just have stone throwing contests. But I do have quite a few Israeli friends and I did ask them and they said that they had never done it nor did they know anyone who did. But as the user above me said there was a good chance that those kids were provocted by the camera. But at the end of the film it shows one of the parents coming and collecting the child, I assume to punish him later on since I doubt they would do it with a camera filming.
 

BritneySpears

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I just noticed how biased arab news channels are.

I watched Channel Ten morning news and they reported about Israeli Airstrike on Hamas targets in Gaza with videos showing missiles hitting a Car used by hamas militant (confirmed by hamas). The airstrike was in response to rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas and also showed videos of Hamas rockets which landed on school and homes injuring some people according to Channel 10 morning news.

Then I watched Dubai TV news (on SBS) they showed Israeli airstrike and Palestinian victims (exactly the same footage as channel 10) and nothing about Hamas rocket attacks on Israel which was the reason why Israel launched fresh airstrike. I can see why Palestinian supporters are so vocal about Israeli attacks on Palestinian, because they never see the other side and are fooled to believe that Palestinians are innocent doves just sitting around as eagles mercilessly attack them. :apig:

here is a BBC footage of surgical strike of Hamas car and building by Israeli airforce http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6660000/newsid_6666600/6666617.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm
 

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New law to require referendum before future Israeli withdrawals

Last update - 18:10 16/05/2007

By Shahar Ilan, Haaretz Correspondent


The Knesset plenum on Wednesday passed a new law requiring a voter referendum before any further Israeli withdrawal from territories. The law was passed in its preliminary reading despite strong opposition, including from the prime minister's bureau.

The law, passed by a margin of 26 MKs for to 18 against, was the initiative of former coalition government head and Kadima MK Avigdor Yitzhaki. MKs Ze'ev Elkin and Marina Solodkin of the Kadima faction voted in favor of the law, as did head of the Labor faction Yoram Marciano and fellow Labor MKs Avishay Braverman and Orit Noked.

The law was supported by a concerted effort on the part of a lobby for the Golan Heights communities, who maintain that a potential Israeli withdrawal from the Golan Heights will be much less likely to occur if it will require the approval of a national referendum.

A law written by MK David Rotem (Yisrael Beitenu) and MK Zevulon Orlev (NRP) was also passed by the Knesset plenum during its preliminary reading on Wednesday. The law would require MKs to pledge their devotion to keeping Israel "a Jewish and democratic state, both in character and symbolism."

The law is one of a number of new legislative measures taken against Arab MKs after the revelation that the security establishment suspects former-MK Azmi Bishara (Balad) of assisting Hezbollah during the Second Lebanon War.

During the debate in the General Assembly, MK Zehava Gal-on (Meretz) called the law "a fascist law" and MK Ahmad Tibi (Ra'am-Ta'al) said that "soon enough they'll require us to wear a uniform."

MK Rotem stated that if faith in the State of Israel is fascist, "then I'm a fascist."

MK Orlev added that the passing of the law signified "a great day for the Knesset and the State of Israel. Zionism won. The Knesset has proven that it is not ready to commit suicide.

Source
 

tempco

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BritneySpears said:
I just noticed how biased arab news channels are.

I watched Channel Ten morning news and they reported about Israeli Airstrike on Hamas targets in Gaza with videos showing missiles hitting a Car used by hamas militant (confirmed by hamas). The airstrike was in response to rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas and also showed videos of Hamas rockets which landed on school and homes injuring some people according to Channel 10 morning news.

Then I watched Dubai TV news (on SBS) they showed Israeli airstrike and Palestinian victims (exactly the same footage as channel 10) and nothing about Hamas rocket attacks on Israel which was the reason why Israel launched fresh airstrike. I can see why Palestinian supporters are so vocal about Israeli attacks on Palestinian, because they never see the other side and are fooled to believe that Palestinians are innocent doves just sitting around as eagles mercilessly attack them. :apig:

here is a BBC footage of surgical strike of Hamas car and building by Israeli airforce http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6660000/newsid_6666600/6666617.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm
Just a break down of the above post without unnecessary swipes and what not:

Casualties of HAMAS missile strike on Israel according to this source:
- Man lightly injured when a missile struck a residential building
- 2 women treated for shock
- 2 people lightly injured when a missile struck a school
- 1 person moderate-seriously injured, 1 lightly injured

All these casualties occurred in Sderot, which is a a manufacturing district. The article above gives the impression that most of the 60+ (if not all) rockets were targetting the industrial zone, where workers have refused to show up to work because of the threat of rocket fire.

Hareetz said:
Qassam fire in recent days has cost NIS 65 million in damage to industry in Sderot and the western Negev, the Manufacturers Association of Israel said Thursday.

Some 85 percent of the 40 large factories operating in the western Negev are suffering from employee absences since last week's increased hostilities, according to Yehuda Segev, the director general of the Manufacturers Association.

Some 150 workers have abandoned their workplaces this week, Segev said.
Casualties of the IDF strike according to this source:
- 4 HAMAS operatives killed
- 3 civilians killed

Hareetz said:
The army said the building targeted in one of the strikes, near the Karni crossing, was used as a meeting place for Hamas members and is suspected of housing a tunnel used to smuggle weapons and contraband into Israel, Israel Radio reported.

Also Friday morning, the army attacked and hit a rocket-launching cell in Gaza after several Qassams were fired at the Sderot area, Israel Radio reported.
 

MaNiElla

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Re: Israel & Palestine

BritneySpears said:
One thing they knew is rockets were launched from those house and terrorists are hiding behind those babies and children.

It is well known that hamas and islamic jihad always launched rockets from densely populated areas knowing that Israeli retaliation will cause civilian casualty so they can continue with their propaganda that Israel killed children.

And those civilians are terrorists and when killed suddenly became innocent civilians. Typical terrorist styles.

Villages names please?



Israel celebrates the anniversary of 40 years of Israeli rule in Jerusalem. East Jerusalem 9the old city) was captured by Israeli Force from Jordan. Palestinians have nothing to do with jerusalem, if it was not in the hands of Israel it'll be just another Jordanian city. Here is a video of the capture of Jerusalem in 1967 war. http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news/world/video/94000/nb/94923_16x9_nb.asx
why are you asking for the village names, if you're supporting the "israel dropping pamphelts into palestinian viallges" theory ?? you suopport that, so you should know the names of the villages that israel bombed. Or do you supposrt anything as long as its anti-palestine ??
 

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Atilla89 said:
Just to irritate you and your analnus about using quote tags I don't think I will.
Naaahhh, you just dont wana use them quote tags, because you just want to make it complicated for people to read and find all the irational, ridiculous and flawed facts in your posts. Therefore, i wont take you posts seriuosly and i aint goina read them anymore, theres no use of debatting with a nutter such as yourself. and yeah, your making a huge fool outta yourself :santa:
 

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