Right To Life (1 Viewer)

[katie_tully]

Sorry Sonata, this has no relevant link because it hasn't been broadcasted in the news.

My school is k-12 as some of you know, and in the last newsletter I read a notice about a guy coming to the school from the Right to Life organisation.

Turns out he is giving a speech to years 5/6 about conception to birth, and is then offering "little feet and little hand pins" for $1.

I did some research and probed some teachers and found out they were here two years ago, and that the speech was offered to years 7-10. A teacher put in a formal complaint so it was never given to 7-10, just years 5-6.

Anyway, what are your opinions on organisations such as "Right to Life" giving speeches to children aged 9, 10, 11 and 12 and then offering them little hands and little feet pins? Is this propaganda? Should it be allowed in a public school? If so, shouldn't other organisations be allowed to talk on counterbalancing issues?

 

[loquasagacious]

I do not believe that a right-to-life oragnisation should be able to preach in a school as their docterine is in direct opposition to the school syllabus which teaches prevention and family planning including support if you do decide to abort. Hence it is counter-productive to allow right-to-lifers.

Also like scripture classes if they do run attendence should be optional. Unlike scripture i think the onus should be on the student to choose to attend rather than choose not to attend.

 

[katie_tully]

Well that's the problem here too. Scripture in secondary has been reintroduced, but you need parental permission before you can skip it.

My sister is in 5th class. There isn't a chance in hell she is going to comprehend, but mum's going to the session anyway to "screen" for propaganda.

 

[julius]

It sounds like it is anti abortion propaganda. I do not believe the kids whom the speech is aimed @ can make an informed decision on the issue given their young ages. The school should provide Right to Choice or someone similar to provide counter arguments against Right to Life.

I went to a catholic school and they didn't even pull the same shit this thread is about on me.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't think either groups should be allowed in the school...

 

[katie_tully]

I don't think either groups should be allowed in the school...

Nor do I, but if they're going to be allowed to have Right to Live it seems plausable that they should have the other side of the argument.

I think it's propaganda, especially the "little hand and feet pins"

 

[loquasagacious]

I think the school system should support students in whatever choice they make rather than forcing them one way or tuther. Which I guess makes me pro-choice.

Which brings me to an interesting issue, Pro-life and pro-choice are presented as polar opposites, however are not. The polar opposite to pro-life eg no abortion is pro-aborting all pregancies. And pro-choice is not that, pro-choice is the middle-ground. Pro-choice in that sense is whatr schools should be espousing.

 

[loquasagacious]

The organisation is essentially applying the 'get em while they're young' principle, it doesn't matter whether or not a child understands, understanding is not what indoctrination is about....

 

[Tulipa]

Odd how a teacher would not allow if for years 7-10. Even more interesting is how a teacher at your school thinks thats its best for younger children who are more impressionable.

IMO, it's difficult to say when to promote these things. Or whether to have groups present their stances on it. Your school condoning the promotion of right to life, without giving other sides to the story, is it basically saying that's the right thing.

I'm at a Catholic school, so the whole abortion thing is kinda glazed over. We did have one guy come last year (for yr10 and 11) who was basically a right to life promoter. He glanced over a lot of it and it was basically a propaganda speech. A friend asked afterwards why we couldn't talk with someone who had had an abortion or was pro-choice. We got shot down because we were a Catholic school. Since yours isn't though, why not have pro-choice?

 

[loquasagacious]

The problem with a christian education is that it teaches: no sex, no contraception and no abortion. Contraception and abortion are two things that alot of people are iffy about and so these messages are effective. However attempting to over-ride the basic human desire to procreate and recreate is doomed to failure. And it does.

In year 11 fifteen students from a k-10 christian school moved to my school, of the girls (10) by the end of year 12 five of the girls had accidently become pregnant and only 1 aborted. This 50% pregnancy rate compares to a far far lower pregnancy rate for the rest of my years population eg aprox 5 out of aprox 100, of which all aborted.

 

[Tulipa]

The problem with a christian education is that it teaches: no sex, no contraception and no abortion. Contraception and abortion are two things that alot of people are iffy about and so these messages are effective. However attempting to over-ride the basic human desire to procreate and recreate is doomed to failure. And it does.

In year 11 fifteen students from a k-10 christian school moved to my school, of the girls (10) by the end of year 12 five of the girls had accidently become pregnant and only 1 aborted. This 50% pregnancy rate compares to a far far lower pregnancy rate for the rest of my years population eg aprox 5 out of aprox 100, of which all aborted.

It is insanely ridiculous. We got taught about contraception but in a its bad don't use it way. Don't have sex before marriage either. A lot of us are though, and its through common knowledge and finding out for ourselves how to be safe about it.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

I don't think politics shouldbe played out in school like that, by bringing in people that have a strong agenda to brainwash kids.

I remember (and I went to a public school) how church groups used to come "disguised" as motivational speakers and then try and convince people to come to church/youth group. It was often compulsory to attend these talks. It used to really piss me off because you would see people be deluded in to going, which was what they wanted. "Oh yeah lets go to this youth group thing cos they have an underage disco".... people didn't realize they were being indoctrinated by a religious group.

I think the school has a duty of care to not let the young minds they foster be indoctrinated by those with extreme political and religious agendas. This goes for both sides of politics as well, I mean I wouldn't want the socialist alliance giving a lecture on passive resistance and anarchy to year 6 either.

 

[katie_tully]

Odd how a teacher would not allow if for years 7-10. Even more interesting is how a teacher at your school thinks thats its best for younger children who are more impressionable.

IMO, it's difficult to say when to promote these things. Or whether to have groups present their stances on it. Your school condoning the promotion of right to life, without giving other sides to the story, is it basically saying that's the right thing.

I'm at a Catholic school, so the whole abortion thing is kinda glazed over. We did have one guy come last year (for yr10 and 11) who was basically a right to life promoter. He glanced over a lot of it and it was basically a propaganda speech. A friend asked afterwards why we couldn't talk with someone who had had an abortion or was pro-choice. We got shot down because we were a Catholic school. Since yours isn't though, why not have pro-choice?

No well, the majority of the teacher body is rabid Catholic, which is amusing in a public school. They've reinstated secondary scripture, etc and now this. The teacher that stood up against them isn't religious, and the seminar was going to be during her class time. She felt it is inappropriate for young children to be exposed to this sort of thing. Plus she threatened to go further.
I doubt we'd be allowed to have pro-choice seminars, because that would be allowing the student body to think for themselves....

 

[Captain pi]

We had a Right-to-Life guy come over in year 9. Yes, it was propaganda. He had the nerve to think that we would think that abortion causes breast cancer. His exact words "I spoke to a pediatrician in Sydney [highly authoritative ]; and he said that there is more evidence of a link between breast cancer and abortion than lung cancer and smoking."

 

[transcendent]

i'm against them preaching to the youngin's. maybe year 11-12 and they decide whether they want to participate or not.

 

[Danoz The Great]

We had a Right-to-Life guy come over in year 9. Yes, it was propaganda. He had the nerve to think that we would think that abortion causes breast cancer. His exact words "I spoke to a pediatrician in Sydney [highly authoritative ]; and he said that there is more evidence of a link between breast cancer and abortion than lung cancer and smoking."

I remember that. That man, I was ready to poke his eyes out.

 

[Generator]

Lengster, why should they be preaching their message within a public school at all? Shouldn't the relatively progressive sex ed programmes suffice, particularly as the pro-informed-choice argument considers all angles (as addymac pointed out)?

The Coalition had a great chance to ensure that all students, be they at a public school or not, would be able to receive an adequate level of sexual education back when it announced its flagpole values policy, but Nelson backed down. Shameful.

 

[transcendent]

ah yeah, forgot about those sex ed camps.

 

[loquasagacious]

As I said the idea of indoctrination is not to implant logic or rational thought processes it is to condition. eg If abortion is successfully associated with bad things eg hell, breast cancer, terrorism from a young age then the term abortion will become a negative trigger. Hence any later attempt at teaching pro-choice will be met by students closing up.

Indoctrination is not about persuading people with rational arguments it is about emotive imagery, and powerful emotional triggers. It is designed to block logical open thought process by sealing off possibilities in the mind.

eg Teenage girl is presented a problem (yes I am aware that this is a very mechanical example but it is sufficient to illustrate my point), she is pregnant. A pro-choice background girl would weigh up abortion versus carrying to term. An indoctrinated teen would ponder whether she would go to hell for having sex as she bought baby toys....

 

[theone3]

Don't put in another complaint! Or they'll be complaining to the year 2-3 kids about how we 'kill' dead babies.