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Socialism,Facism,Communism,Nazism & Capitalism (2 Viewers)

Admiral Nelson

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bodyglove said:
communism was never given a chance.
Communism was given multiple chances over the last seventy years and each time it fell to oligarchs and a new class of aristocrats. Each time it's either ended in a counter-revolution, economic stagnancy, or a slow trend away from Communism into a more mild Socialism embracing more economic freedoms and the like.

Yes, I know examples such as Cuba, China and the USSR aren't "true" Communist countries, only differing forms deviating from the idea of "pure Communism" and given the broad banner "Communist", but honestly, all of them started out with pure intentions and ended up somewhere else.

Communism has been given chances, but the inherently flawed nature of man will mean "pure Communism" will never exist on any scale that would be beneficial.
 

Iron

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Public Education? Medicare? Superannuation? The minimum wage? The ALP?
About a quarter of our GDP goes to the public sector. FFS communism is part of the furniture. All that happened was that the reformers beat the revolutionaries.
 

Admiral Nelson

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Socialism and Communism are different things. They both want to end at the same place, but one does it through slow, gradual and democratic processes, the other through a rapid revolution.

Both are the same in that neither will get to their objective. I wouldn't disagree that mild Socialism definitely comes with it's perks.

The British Labour Party only removed the part of their charter that they wanted to get to a utopian Communist state in the mid 1980's I believe. Or, was it in the early 90's? I'm not sure which.
 

Lentern

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Communism tends to distort the whole spectrum as it is the only government philosophy which has a compulsory economic philosophy tied into it. Socialism is not a form of government, it an economic theory like Keynesian theory and the Chicago school.

I don't believe forms of government are part of any wing the exception being communism. Democracies, theocracies, oligarchies all are in a position to implement high taxes or virtually none, to legalise gay marriages and abortions or to make them punishable by death. In terms of what form of government will implement the policies most helpful for the people I heard someone suggest benevolent dictator, or autocrat because it has a nicer ring to it. Benevolence in itself is not enough, Pausanias of Sparta was the most benevolent leader they ever had, look how it ended up for him.

But the real issue with autocrat benevolent or not is how do they get the following of the people, regardless of how good you do your job some people will think they can do a better job, case in point is in the Australian senate where seventy something parties that all have different ideas as to how best run the country and all of them have a voting base, how does the benevolent autocrat maintain power when you aren't chosen by the people? Without the support of the mob you need to pull out an iron first and suddenly the term dictator becomes more accuarate than autocrat. Even if you got the most lovely and intelligent man into a position of authority if he didn't get chosen by the people he would either need to resort to deception or brutality to keep his job.

Democracy is probably the best form although the fine tuning of it is still subject to debate, an elected autocrat perhaps whom basically has the world at his finger tips but cannot ever avoid the elections? An entirely statutory parliament? A constitutional parliament? A presidential?

My view is that the people should elect two bodies, one can be called a president if you will, the other is the treasury which would be similar to a senate, the President does not have any governing power of his own, he or she appoints ministers(and can not dismiss them, they are appointed for their term) and can only create or abolish a department through referenda. If one of the ministers resigns and they can do so on their own accord only, the senate can appoint a replacement, not the president. The Treasury/Senate gets to set taxes and such and has power to assign a certain amount of funds to each department. They're governing ability is otherwise very limmited. If a minister is deemed incompetent by the senate they can then limmit it's funding and attempt to force his or her resignation, if the minister is still proving incompetent as a drastic measure the senate can convey a recommendation to the high court to dismiss the minister and if the high court agrees about their incompetence than they could execute the request.

Really though there is nothing in that model about policy, which is what I was getting at, aside from communism which distorts at all, forms of government do not come with predetermined policy inclinations, they simply explain the distribution of power. As for economic policy I again don't like the terms socialism and capitalist thrown about as they are not black and white, indeed if you were a fundamentalist socialist or fundamentalist capitalist I'd be quite worried. I tend to favour Keynesian style economics which I consider a moderate branch of capitalism, interesting though alot of Freidmanites would heckle a Keynesianist as being a socialist, an example was actually Andrew Peacock and his constant "The Hawke Socialist government" rhetoric.

In terms of social policy my views are quite liberal and progressive, I reject tradtionalism and can summarise them in a simple way, If it hurts nobody, it should be permitted, if infringes upon someone elses rights, it should be forbidden. Ok there are instances where this isn't entirely practical but as a general rule, I don't agree with gay marriage legislation for example as I can't possible understand what the actual downside to it is. But that's a debate for another thread.
 

1947

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bigboyjames said:
in the absalute long run i rather have communism
oh yes communism the new hip ideology of tommorow or oh sorry i forgot the outdated unfeasable nightmare that came crashing down in 1990
 

1947

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bodyglove said:
communism was never given a chance.
it was given a chance and if u remember it never worked
 

1947

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communism will never work because no one is willing to live that way and every communist govt every creted has always been a dictatorship .
the communist utopia is just that it can never be created due to the govts that run the country.
 

zstar

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Socialists care so much about the poor that they're willing to help them with your money.
 

Admiral Nelson

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Yeah, taxation is horrible and it certainly doesn't provide the basis for the high standard of living that we enjoy. Every cent just goes to buying drug addicts Ferrari's and putting poor people, poor because they chose to be of course, into waterfront homes.
 

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