The moderates and the conservatives - the state of the NSW Liberal Party (1 Viewer)

[Not-That-Bright]

By broadchurch we dont mean of the religious variety, we mean in terms of opinions. Or are you just being sarcastic.....

Yes, Sarcasm. I just thought it was interesting you used the word 'church'.

No, these issues will have varying opinions within the liberal party. Some will be extremely opposed to anything to do with homosexuality, whereas others may support gay marriage. As said earlier, its a broad church. The only thing is that why on earth would you join a party which does not reflect your views.

In Australia, we have a two party system. Now if you have views which are different to either of these two parties then instead of going off renegade style and creating your own party or voting for some minor party, it is wiser to join the party which you feel is closest to your views and influence it from the inside.

Of course social policy is going to gradually move forward. The point I was trying to make is that the Liberal party fills a very important gap in the political landscape. They are the major conservative party. For a bunch of left wing people to take over that party would not only destroy their electoral chances (as who now is going to vote for them), but it would no longer represent the views of conservative australians.

It is not as if every single right-wing, conservative perspective on an issue is necessarily what the typical liberal voter would have.

If you stand for compulsory student unionism, drug-injecting rooms and lowering the [homosexual] age of consent, you can choose the Greens, Labor or the Democrats

That's different to saying 'If you're for the environment, if you're for gay marriage - this is not the party for you'.

what about gay marriage? Are you going to tell me that Alex Hawke won't tolerate drug injecting rooms and lowering the age of consent (he may have been talking in the context of when the age of consent for homosexuals was 18, or perhaps he just blind forgot it is 16) but will tolerate gay marriage?

I don't think it's about what he tolerates, it's more about what the broader 'Liberal' community is willing to tollerate.

 

[wheredanton]

I don't think it's about what he tolerates, it's more about what the broader 'Liberal' community is willing to tollerate.

what I meant was that if Hawke says you shouldn't be a part of the Liberals if you support VSU (fair enough) or lowering the age of consent for homosexuals (Again he either forgot it's 16 or his comment was made when the age of consent was 18) then he probably would think the same of same sex marriage

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Another issue is maybe the fact that people are getting selected based on ultraconservatism, rather than actual ability.

I agree.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

You don't see a problem with singing god save the queen in a minutes silence for the stolen generation? It's not just rude but also calculated to be offensive. Must like some wacky lefty group protesting against war by interrupting the ANZAC min silence. Rude and politically motivated to specifically offend. If they wanted to show their monarchist colours they would perhaps choose a more appropriate time and place don't you think? I don't think it's very appropriate to interrupt any minute silences held around the nation.

Agreed 100%

I don't think they were making fun. They proudly chanted that they were racist, sexist and homophobic. Hilarious!

Eh... on the subject of that chant, I imagine that could be a joke.

I don't think feral lefty groups 'are allowed' to do such things as 'die ins'. If anything they would be prosecuted and perhaps sued for trespass.

No... they can do it.

 

[wheredanton]

Firstly, ALSF=/=YLs. Secondly, the people in the chants were apparently from Melbourne, and I can't speak for them. Thirdly, I don't really see a problem with singing God Save The Queen. I'm sure there's a number of non-Liberals who are monarchists, so where's the problem?

You don't see a problem with singing God Save the Queen in a minutes silence for the stolen generation? It's not just rude but also calculated to be offensive. Must like some wacky lefty group protesting against war by interrupting the ANZAC min silence. Rude and politically motivated to specifically offend. If they wanted to show their monarchist colours they would perhaps choose a more appropriate time and place don't you think? I don't think it's very appropriate to interrupt any minute silences held around the nation.

And fourthly, as usual, the ABC has blown everything WAY out of proportion. It's an excuse to beat up on Liberal students. I hardly think making fun of the labels you are given qualifies as serious, institutionalised racism.

I don't think they were making fun. They proudly chanted that they were racist, sexist and homophobic. Hilarious!

And if certain left-wing groups are allowed to stage a 'die-in' at army reserve stalls, or burn flags, I hardly think singing God Save The Queen during a minute's silence for the so-called 'Stolen Generation' qualifies as heresy...

I don't think feral lefty groups 'are allowed' to do such things as 'die ins'. If anything they would be prosecuted and perhaps sued for trespass.

I think the ABC is ridiculously biased, and just about nothing you can say will change that. It has its place, but I don't watch it, and I don't take anything it says about the Libs seriously. Imagine if there was no ABC? It doesn't bother me. I'm in the 'privatise it' camp.

So where do you get your infromation on the state of politics in the country? Dancing with the stars?
Currently the only channel that actually reports what is going on in politics as well as being critical is the ABC. Ever watch Costello or Howard or any politician get interviewed on ACA? They ask them nothing questions which just allow the pollie to spin spin and outline their policy.

You don't like the ABC because they are actually critical (shock horror!). Which includes being critical of the government (Shock Horror!). Channel 7 never gets politically critical with any sides, channel 9 only once a week on 'Sunday' and channel 10 with 'meet the press'. So, um, where do you up the political news and reports? Akerman? the 40 second spot on channel 9 news?

Do you have some kind of problem with Insiders on the ABC? They actually talk about politics for 20 minutes! Imagine that ever getting to a commercial channel? It's hardly bias. They have Akerman or Bolt on each week to represent the right.

What about foreign correspondent? Such a massively bias production that. God forbid people who watch it might know that there are other countries in the world!

4 corners? They produce a segment on the state of the NSW liberals and it gets called bias. I BET if they ever produced a segment critical of the ALP ti would be wholeheartedly endorsed. If you ever did watch the ABC you would realise that ABC shows are often critical of the ALP, in particular the Iemma state government.

And, like Justin, I have some pretty hardline economic views so I'd be a member of the Right faction if I placed myself somewhere, so no, it doesn't really concern me that it has control. There are individual elements/views that do concern me, but because of the diversity of views people hold, you can't honestly expect that every single viewpoint expressed will align to your own.

Economic right often contradicts the social right (conservatism).

 

[wheredanton]

Eh... on the subject of that chant, I imagine that could be a joke.

I don't think calling yourself a sexist, racist homophobe is a greatway to get your message across. It's would never strike me as funny. Juvenile yes. I don't sexism, racism or being homophobic particularily funny or light

No... they can do it.

?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't think calling yourself a sexist, racist homophobe is a greatway to get your message across. It's would never strike me as funny. Juvenile yes.

If you're with a bunch of friends and you know you guys get stereotyped as a bunch of racist, sexist homophobes then why not sing and chant along about it? I have no problem with it to be honest, even if it might be considered juvenile.

No... they can do it.

At army recruitment drives, say in a university, there is nothing to stop them from doing 'die ins'.

 

[withoutaface]

It's similar to whenever uni elections come around my msn name is usually changed to 'Liberal Scum', or how greeks and italians claim back the term 'wog', and various other examples. If you're getting insults slung at you it's often fun to mock them by acting like they're a badge of honour, which is what that chant would be about.

 

[gerhard]

The main thing that annoys me is that I voted for these guys in the NUS, but instead of representing my views they act like boorish morons. They proclaim to be economic rationalists, get sent to Melbourne to partake in NUS conferences and then do what they can to disrupt everything and get themselves sent out. What could be more of a waste of money.

 

[withoutaface]

At NUS they have a rule saying Australian flags aren't allowed in the conference, because they're inherently evil and disrespectful to the aboriginals. Hence some Libs go in draped in the flag, they get kicked out. Others try to participate in debates but the left ignore standing orders and pretend they don't have their hands up so they have no option but to cause as much disruption as possible because there's no other way they can have any effect on the conference.

 

[transcendent]

Isn't that just stooping to the level of what the 'Left' are doing here anyways? Except in smaller numbers? Sure be assertive and make them acknowledge you so that you may have your say but distruption is going to tarnish the image of the party and draw out criticism for them.

 

[wheredanton]

It's similar to whenever uni elections come around my msn name is usually changed to 'Liberal Scum',

Different to calling yourself sexist, homophobic and racist. It's pretty juvenile considering the the history of the three terms and their impact on human society. 'Liberal scum' is nowhere near as serious.

*Since everyone keeps calling me a communist I'm going to go around calling myself a (dirty) communist!* So funny and satirically sharp!

 

[gerhard]

Not sure if that was directed at me but - my tirades arent moral, theyre practical. I want things done, and the best way to get things done is to not get yourself kicked out by being inflammatory, but to deal with the situation and try to change it from the inside. Otherwise, whats the point of being my elected representative? To waste my money?


I have no problem with the racist/sexist/homophobic thing - its obvious that they dont actually consider themselves these things

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Incidentally, John Hyde Page was in my Criminal Law class last year.

 

[gnrlies]

Correct.
That's funny, because I support the deinstitutionalisation of marriage, and various other things which are the opposite of what the traditional conservative would, and Alex has not one told me to stop participating in the party, if anything quite the opposite. Have you ever met him? Perhaps you should stop believing everything the SMH tells you.

I do know Alex. Not well, but I know him. Thats besides the point anyway. Of course people are entitled to hold their own opinions which may be quite progressive, howevor as I said earlier, why would you join a party whose views you do not support. I think thats the point, not that everything you believe in has to be conservative - just that you share similar views to the party.

I'm economically ridiculously far right, hence I'm a member of the Right faction.

Me too, although I think the issue here is not with economic policy, but rather social policy

 

[withoutaface]

The other options are Greens, who are socialist, Democrats, who are economically left, Labor who are economically left and socially almost as bad as the Libs, so the Libs are the only real option for classical liberals.

 

[gnrlies]

Hmm

those melbourne clubs have a bad reputation...

 

[MoonlightSonata]

It is really a sad shame about the hard-line social conservatism prevalent in the modern day Liberal Party, and moreover YLs.

If it weren't for some rather idiotic social views they would be so much more attractive and morally defensible as a party.

 

[consul]

Isn't the whole point of a conservative party to be socially as well as economically conservative?

Those of us who believe in traditional conservative values, such as opposing gay marriage, should be able to rely on our mainstream conservative party to do so as well.

Both sides of the political spectrum seem to be moving closer and closer to the centre. I agree with the Young Libs representative in that would definitely be good to see some more clear-cut differences in our parties these days.

 

[withoutaface]

The Liberal party was founded on tenets of individual freedom, not conservatism.