Where do you stand? (5 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

However constant leftism can be nauseating.

Well I find arguments often go like this;

I hate America.
I hate Bush.
I hate Bush too.
Osama isn't that bad.
Hey, Communism could work, right?
I hate that Bush tho...
Yea Bush Sux.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I have tried to explain it like that way for a long time, but it still doesn't add up.

All i know, is we are a generation of assholes who don't care about society, who listen to rubbish music which promotes violence, who drive around in crap cars and do burn outs etc.. but all of a sudden, we are very caring, loving, hippies who have a soft spot refugees and aboriginals. It seems very strange.

People have a natural inclination to try to fit in (I wasn’t gifted with such an instinct), so maybe they become left to try to conform because they perceive uni to be some massive Marxist institution?

Meh. The left isn’t something that is easy to understand.

All i know, is we are a generation of assholes who don't care about society, who listen to rubbish music which promotes violence, who drive around in crap cars and do burn outs etc..

Alot of people like this are lefties (and righties), they are both categorised into the group 'morons'.

People have a natural inclination to try to fit in (I wasn’t gifted with such an instinct), so maybe they become left to try to conform because they perceive uni to be some massive Marxist institution?

While definately I find myself writing more leftist essays, at the same time it is not this that makes me 'conform' what so ever, I just cannot deny strong arguments.

 

[erawamai]

Well I find arguments often go like this;

I hate America.
I hate Bush.
I hate Bush too.
Osama isn't that bad.
Hey, Communism could work, right?
I hate that Bush tho...
Yea Bush Sux.

Well it can be intellectual and well thought out leftism. However I find CONSTANT leftism without any counter bloody farking boring and sometimes damn irritating.

 

[Sarah]

Or other whiney lefty girls who think if you say aything not totally and uttery left you are evil and deserve the death stare. That as soon as it comes out of your mouth the self rightious annoying girl will prick her ears up and jump at you like anything opposed to leftism is inherently evil...while I'm thinking *I"m not saying its right you stupid moronic stereotypical blank shreeking self rightious numb 'I'm left because its cool and trendy' moron. I'm just trying to present another viewpoint*

Well it's a lot worse when your tutor tends toward the left and you try offering an alternative in an attempt to balance what he's saying. In the end, he reverts back to the doom and gloom of the situation being discussed without saying why the alternative I offer isn't feasible.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well it can be intellectual and well thought out leftism. However I find CONSTANT leftism without any counter bloody farking boring and sometimes damn irritating.

I don't mind it when it's intellectual and well thought out, then I can have a argument, but when it's the same basic things that have been mentioned all the time (sometimes that are accurate, but don't really need to be said again) I just find myself getting frustrated.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Do these people not want to hear about anything else besides *their* views? Surely they are being ignorant?

Mathmite, develop strong arguments, go to uni, and contest their views. In uni there is a lack of smart / opinionated right-wing thinkers (at least in certain degrees)... so how can they be expected to say anything different?

 

[Liberal Scum]

Well it can be intellectual and well thought out leftism. However I find CONSTANT leftism without any counter bloody farking boring and sometimes damn irritating.

I call for AA for right wingers in arts!

 

[erawamai]

Yes.. But are they living in a cloud or something? Hello!? The [conservative] government was just elected with a massive majority.. it gained control of the senate.. Do these people not want to hear about anything else besides *their* views? Surely they are being ignorant?

My main problem is have no idea what it is they get their jollies off. I like conservatism because i'm patriotic.. They are left because? What on earth do they get out of it all?

Mathmite you are exactly like them. Just from a different perspective.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I call for AA for right wingers in arts!

lol I can just imagine some total hippie walking up with an application for that...
"uhh.... ummm... go howard!"

 

[Liberal Scum]

Yes.. But are they living in a cloud or something? Hello!? The [conservative] government was just elected with a massive majority.. it gained control of the senate.. Do these people not want to hear about anything else besides *their* views? Surely they are being ignorant?

My main problem is have no idea what it is they get their jollies off. I like conservatism because i'm patriotic.. They are left because? What on earth do they get out of it all?

Conservative = You like things how they are
Socialism = You think that everyone should get their fair share
Liberalism = You think everyone should be able to do as they please, within reason

That's on a very superficial level.

 

[erawamai]

Conservative = You like things how they are

Or you like how things were in 1900

 

[loquasagacious]

I have tried to explain it like that way for a long time, but it still doesn't add up.

All i know, is we are a generation of assholes who don't care about society, who listen to rubbish music which promotes violence, who drive around in crap cars and do burn outs etc.. but all of a sudden, we are very caring, loving, hippies who have a soft spot for refugees and aboriginals. It seems very strange.

People have a natural inclination to try to fit in (I wasn’t gifted enough to be born with such an instinct), so maybe they become left to try to conform because they perceive uni to be some massive Marxist institution?

Meh. The left isn’t something that is easy to understand.

The problem with your analysis is that the burnout type don't go to univeristy (at least not the ones we're talking about). If they do they do accounting so we don't see them.

@NTB well you, erawami and I have all become more cynical at uni. For whatever reason possibly background, stubborness, desire to differentiate rather than our idealistic selves being whisked away by communist ideology our exposure to it (and particularly its vociferous exponents) makes us cynical toward it.

Personally I'd say in my case it has alot to do with being ahead. I was flirting with totalitarian communist ideology in year 8, had rejected it for democratic socialism by yr 10 and drifted further right through 11 and 12 and now at uni upon beig exposed on the one hand to the left and on the other neo-liberal economics I have largely fallen under its sway.

 

[erawamai]

at uni upon beig exposed on the one hand to the left and on the other neo-liberal economics I have largely fallen under its sway.

Have you taken it to heart? According to my text book commerce students are more likely to be utility maximisers and thus more selfish.

Are you more selfish than you socialist foe Liberal Scum?

 

[Liberal Scum]

The problem with your analysis is that the burnout type don't go to univeristy (at least not the ones we're talking about). If they do they do accounting so we don't see them.

@NTB well you, erawami and I have all become more cynical at uni. For whatever reason possibly background, stubborness, desire to differentiate rather than our idealistic selves being whisked away by communist ideology our exposure to it (and particularly its vociferous exponents) makes us cynical toward it.

Personally I'd say in my case it has alot to do with being ahead. I was flirting with totalitarian communist ideology in year 8, had rejected it for democratic socialism by yr 10 and drifted further right through 11 and 12 and now at uni upon beig exposed on the one hand to the left and on the other neo-liberal economics I have largely fallen under its sway.

I would have said that my young self (even up until year 10 or so) would have been massively supportive of the labor ideology, because they seemed to promote a greater degree of social justice and saw all right wing views as entirely illogical. Then the two issues which brought me to the right would have been first the Iraq war, and then VSU.

 

[Sarah]

I think the direction of the shift is largely dictated by the faculty, arts for instance is mostly left wing, economics/commerce mostly right wing. Engineering mostly drunk. etc etc

I tend to be more left in my econ classes but more right in my arts classes.

In my experience, arts ppl are more towards the left because they consider the humanitarian, social justice side and overlook the economics of the situation. Same applies but in reverse to commerce/economics

 

[erawamai]

No, i acknowledge the left wings existence, as much as i hate it.... I think the reason i dislike them so much is because i feel sorry for them, yet they dont do anything to help themselves? (If that makes any sense).. It's like they are hoping that "if i think like this long enough.. maybe one day it'll come true!? Shit i hope my soul permeates through out the nation and we go back to the Whitlam era?"..

Conservatism is currently so successfull because it acknowledges the left wings existence, and can see flaws in it.. The left wing doesn't even want to know about the right wing's existence.. It's like.. Trying to be a snob.. Yet its like it has champaigne taste on a beer budget? It is not endowed with any power or right to be a snob.. They're losing so badly in the scope or things?

Wow...you need some work. Conservatism is now tied neoliberal economics...neo liberal economics is blamed for causing racism and Hanson. So while you like howard his neoliberal economic policies generally alienate white folk like you who don't understand neoliberal economics and how it might hurt them/you. You then blame immigrants and non whites for taking your jobs and invading your country...and how its unfair that ATSI get welfare blah blah etc etc.

...you then vote for the Howard government and support them because they have conservative values.

---------------

Also conservatism (as in the nationalistic sense) is kinda out of kilter with mordern economics. Certainly conservative heros like Menzies who has values like you certainly didn't like modern market economies.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No, i acknowledge the left wings existence, as much as i hate it.... I think the reason i dislike them so much is because i feel sorry for them, yet they dont do anything to help themselves? (If that makes any sense).. It's like they are hoping that "if i think like this long enough.. maybe one day it'll come true!? Shit i hope my soul permeates through out the nation and we go back to the Whitlam era?"..

Conservatism is currently so successful because it acknowledges the left wings existence, and can see flaws in it.. The left wing doesn't even want to know about the right wing's existence.. It's like.. Trying to be a snob.. But its like it has champagne taste on a beer budget? It is not endowed with any power or right to be a snob.. They're losing so badly in the scope or things?

Marxist ideology is the antithesis of Liberalism...
What are you on about?

 

[loquasagacious]

Have you taken it to heart? According to my text book commerce students are more likely to be utility maximisers and thus more selfish.

Are you more selfish than you socialist foe Liberal Scum?

Ah but if you read more of the commerce textbook it should tell you that on aggregate my utility maximisation is not selfish as overall it ensures that evryone gets as much utility as they can. More so than under any other system.

Like NTB I am swayed by argument, I have yet to be presented with an awe inspring left wing argument that I couldn't tear to shreds. The logic on the right is however quite powerful. It was strange in the first term or so - I was sitting in microeconomics trying not to be persuaded mentally arguing it out. And I wasn't able to, the neo-liberal position my lecturer was teaching seems almost ironclad. And so slowly I was persuaded.

 

[erawamai]

The logic on the right is however quite powerful. It was strange in the first term or so - I was sitting in microeconomics trying not to be persuaded mentally arguing it out. And I wasn't able to, the neo-liberal position my lecturer was teaching seems almost ironclad. And so slowly I was persuaded.

The logic of the right is powerful because it is so simple...or parsimonious!

 

[erawamai]

I only have a problem with minorities who have strong oppressive tendancies and who present a genuine threat.

The reason people like you exist is because of neoliberalism. Many have written about it. Certainly the ideas of hansonism were caused by middle class white folk who were alienated by the modern economy and the international nature of the world today. They yearn for a conservatism and simply life of the 1950s. When you knew your enemies and right was right and wrong with wrong.