What do you hate about law students? (3 Viewers)

[doink]

Im talking about grads. Those positions are not for grads

mining engineering @ Perth CBD, they'll give you over 80k and kiss your ass while they're at it.

 

[melsc]

I've had to have a lol at all the things people have written in this thread, it has become quite nasty. But then again, what do you expect from law students, to get any where in law you have to have a certain level of competitiveness.

Just a questoin, but what are moots normally like? I'm in my first year and we had to do a moot as part of our assessment for semester one. I was under the impression that they were a little different. Do you generally get to speak and present your submissions and the Judge asks questions? etc?

Are you at UWS, was the moot a bail application for Criminal law?

Moots are like an appeal in an appelate court, thus no witnesses, no arguments of fact, its all law. You argue points of law with the judge who will interject and ask you questions, as does the other side.

 

[jb2007]

@ jb 2007 - i have started a new post about mooting for you. Let's keep this thread clear of constructive comments about law school and full of venom, which is how I like it.
another to hate law students

Unis always seem to make them feel special. They get drinks, their own special buildings and hangouts. Ever heard of the science special lounge and library? No, neither have I. They get their law camp. Etc. Such a pedestal!

haha thanks for that
Shall the rants continue

 

[Timbo650]

Engineers make quite a bit more money than lawyers, mining or not.

Maybe.
But lawyers generally have better looking GFs :wave:

 

[travelfish]

Im talking about grads. Those positions are not for grads

There are no grads in any of the top tier firms in any of the capital cities in Australia who are paid 80k, including or excluding super. Inaccurate salary figures always get thrown around on the internet (I expect it is a simple manifestation of the "chinese whispers" phenonmenon), but if you want reliable salary information, check publications such as the annual salary surveys published by Hays or Michael Page Legal.

 

[neo o]

There are no grads in any of the top tier firms in any of the capital cities in Australia who are paid 80k, including or excluding super. Inaccurate salary figures always get thrown around on the internet (I expect it is a simple manifestation of the "chinese whispers" phenonmenon), but if you want reliable salary information, check publications such as the annual salary surveys published by Hays or Michael Page Legal.

A friend of mine just got 58K as a graduate at Mallesons in Sydney. I was surprised tbh, I thought that it'd be lower.

 

[Frigid]

A friend of mine just got 58K as a graduate at Mallesons in Sydney. I was surprised tbh, I thought that it'd be lower.

my god that is low.. are we talking abt net or gross, incl. or excl. super?

 

[travelfish]

my god that is low.. are we talking abt net or gross, incl. or excl. super?

I am confident that it is excluding super, which places the total package at 63k, an amount for which I am also confident would be close to the prevailing market average for graduates in the top tier. That is gross, before taxation.

Generally speaking, there is a salary review at 6 months at which point the total package reaches 70k.

The top tier, in an almost cartel like way, have done a good job of ensuring that entry and junior lawyer level pay packages are close across the board.

Remembering too, the firm pays for College of Law / PLT, in addition to the graduate salary, which I understand now costs around $7k. (Although of course they also make you pay it back if you leave too early!).

 

[melsc]

Govt departments like the DPP pay 52-56K

 

[Frigid]

i just turned about 500 pages of readings into 100 pages of notes into 2 x 1,500 word 50% problem assignment answers.


and now i feel so empty.

 

[Ginny11]

You know, suprisingly, i want to do law (even though i think my brain has been slowly dying ever since i started year twelve) yet it seems if i ever do get the chance, I'm going to end up either

a) thinking i'm top shit
b) sounding like a wanker
c) acting fake
d) pretending my UAI was 99.6
e) being a complete nasty bitch
f) being so competitive that i fuck someone to come first
g) Or all of the above

Please tell me this isn't true? Is my perception of wanting to be a lawyer to do good so deluded?

 

[~shinigami~]

f) being so competitive that i fuck someone to come first

Best double entendre ever.

 

[melsc]

You know, suprisingly, i want to do law (even though i think my brain has been slowly dying ever since i started year twelve) yet it seems if i ever do get the chance, I'm going to end up either

a) thinking i'm top shit
b) sounding like a wanker
c) acting fake
d) pretending my UAI was 99.6
e) being a complete nasty bitch
f) being so competitive that i fuck someone to come first
g) Or all of the above

Please tell me this isn't true? Is my perception of wanting to be a lawyer to do good so deluded?

Ultimately thats up to you, you don't have to be like that and law wont bring anything out you wont let. Besides most of the people who end up like that were like thate b4 they went to law school.

 

[neo o]

I am confident that it is excluding super, which places the total package at 63k, an amount for which I am also confident would be close to the prevailing market average for graduates in the top tier. That is gross, before taxation.

Generally speaking, there is a salary review at 6 months at which point the total package reaches 70k.

The top tier, in an almost cartel like way, have done a good job of ensuring that entry and junior lawyer level pay packages are close across the board.

Remembering too, the firm pays for College of Law / PLT, in addition to the graduate salary, which I understand now costs around $7k. (Although of course they also make you pay it back if you leave too early!).

Let's just be thankful that they don't charge you for "bonus" corporate breakfasts and weekend bbqs.

 

[travelfish]

Let's just be thankful that they don't charge you for "bonus" corporate breakfasts and weekend bbqs.

Oh they get it all back don't worry.

 

[Strawbaby]

You know, suprisingly, i want to do law (even though i think my brain has been slowly dying ever since i started year twelve) yet it seems if i ever do get the chance, I'm going to end up either

a) thinking i'm top shit
b) sounding like a wanker
c) acting fake
d) pretending my UAI was 99.6
e) being a complete nasty bitch
f) being so competitive that i fuck someone to come first
g) Or all of the above

Please tell me this isn't true? Is my perception of wanting to be a lawyer to do good so deluded?

Some people are like that, but a lot of people aren't. And yeah, as was mentioned above, those who think they're top shit and behave like wankers seem to have been that way before.
It's not deluded, but it seems that it'll be some smacks from unfortunate realities and a long hard slog before you get there. Hell, I'm only in second year and it's become something of a slog :\

 

[velox]

There are no grads in any of the top tier firms in any of the capital cities in Australia who are paid 80k, including or excluding super. Inaccurate salary figures always get thrown around on the internet (I expect it is a simple manifestation of the "chinese whispers" phenonmenon), but if you want reliable salary information, check publications such as the annual salary surveys published by Hays or Michael Page Legal.

Jones Day was paying $70k. I know, im not just making up figures. Easily $80k package.

mining engineering @ Perth CBD, they'll give you over 80k and kiss your ass while they're at it.

I havent seen any and i've been applying to heaps of firms recently for vac work. Most are FIFO to the middle of nowhere.

 

[Frigid]

Jones Day was paying $70k. I know, im not just making up figures. Easily $80k package.

err, Jones Day in Sydney is shit. small office, no support from US and high staff turnover. i have first-hand hearsay.

in Australia, work in an Australian firm.

 

[travelfish]

Jones Day was paying $70k. I know, im not just making up figures. Easily $80k package.

One, Jones Day is not a top tier firm in Australia. (I was only referring to top tier firms in my post above). Not even close. They probably fall into the category of "boutique".

Second, even if they pay a 70k salary, with 9% super, that is not going to be an 80k package. Unless there are other perks that are not being mentioned.

Finally, I still don't believe it. I am open, however, to being convinced on the provision of more evidence.

 

[velox]

One, Jones Day is not a top tier firm in Australia. (I was only referring to top tier firms in my post above). Not even close. They probably fall into the category of "boutique".

Second, even if they pay a 70k salary, with 9% super, that is not going to be an 80k package. Unless there are other perks that are not being mentioned.

Finally, I still don't believe it. I am open, however, to being convinced on the provision of more evidence.

Yeh you're right not top tier in aus. Conveniently you state the minimum super %. The best I could find was $63k + Super. I guess you could potentially make that to $80k if you counted bonus and potential sign on bonus.

Ok I admit there are no $80k top tier salaries going.

Why do lawyers get paid so little as grads?

err, Jones Day in Sydney is shit. small office, no support from US and high staff turnover. i have first-hand hearsay.

in Australia, work in an Australian firm.

Congratulations you have first hand hearsay, does that make you proud? We were talking about salaries and not office size, staff turnover etc. There is no need to display your arrogance here.